wendelah1: (But what of that?)
wendelah1 ([personal profile] wendelah1) wrote in [community profile] xf_book_club2012-05-30 01:33 pm

Story 206: "Let's Play House" by Polly Burns

One of the things that impresses me about this story, is the intensity of the (albeit short) sex scene. It's amazing what an author can do with a few choice pieces of dialogue in the right setting. If you're a Krycek/Mulder fan, and hell even if you're not, you'll find this story very appealing.
~Bright Shiny Objects

I'm not so sure about that, but we shall see.

One of the fascinating things to me about fandom is how we're not all watching the same show.

Let's try again, shall we?

While we may all be playing the same DVDs (known hereafter as The X-Files), we can have completely different reactions to the same episode. For example, I think "Paper Hearts" is one of the worst episodes of the series but a good friend believes it's the best, and we can both make convincing arguments for our respective positions. Fans can make completely opposite interpretations of what it meant when Mulder told Scully that he even made his parents call him "Mulder." What hooks us into the show (and then the fandom) isn't always the same thing either. For some fans, The X-Files is about Mulder and Scully, two heroic FBI agents who investigate the inexplicable and fight the forces of evil. For others, it's a show about Mulder and Scully, two gorgeous and sexy FBI agents who fall in love, and okay yeah, so they solve crimes sometimes, too. And for some fans of the series, the most important or at least the most fascinating thing about The X-Files is the character of Alex Krycek.

Someone posted to the Confessions from the Basement tumblr that they "wished this fandom wasn't so militantly anti-slash." I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not anti-slash. I read slash, although less in this fandom than most. Although you've probably already read it, here you go, anonymouse from tumblr, have some great Mulder/Krycek slash.

Read "Let's Play House."

Love it or hate it, please let us know what you think. And please, especially if you want to read more slash, leave us some suggestions in the nomination post for next time.

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[identity profile] edisto0304.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 08:44 pm (UTC)(link)
"One of the fascinating things to me about fandom is how we're not all watching the same show."

Totally beside the point and I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it like that at all, but this sentence made me laugh so much. I'm stealing it and sharing it with my friends, who will appreciate this as much as I do.

And even though I don't normally read slash fic, simply because I'm a mono-ship kind of person and my ships are usually f/m, I have absolutely nothing against people, who ship Mulder/Krycek or any other slash/fem-slash coupling. And I can't think of anyone, who would hate on a person because they read that type of fic. So I wouldn't say this fandom is "miliantly anti-slash".

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[identity profile] mosinging1986.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
"wished this fandom wasn't so militantly anti-slash."

Are you kidding me? I'd never even heard that word before I discovered the XF online world! Out of all the things I love about fandom in general, this making up of relationships that aren't even remotely hinted at onscreen has been one of the most shocking and annoying.

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[identity profile] mosinging1986.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't do porn, especially homosexual porn.

Oh, I adore Mulder and Krycek as characters. I love their interactions as well. But to make up a homosexual relationship is going way beyond anything that happened on the show. Most of fandom seems to be made up of females, and when I first came into onine fandom, I remember being stunned at the amount of women who had this obsessions with inventing male homosexual relationships, even when they were nowhere to be found in canon. (Perhaps even more so then.) This has happened in every fandom that I've ever been involved in. And heaven help you if you point this out even casually, let alone say anything that might be perceived as negative.

Oh, fandom. You so crazy.

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[identity profile] edisto0304.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)
No, no, no! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you and I wasn't laughing at you. This is just something I hear people frequently say, both about X-Files and other shows as well and I really like that you put a positive spin on the saying, because usually when I read it, it's in a negative way. So positivity all the way!

You're right, and I always forget how extraordinarily, surprisingly and luckily great my experiences with the X-Files fandom have been, especially in comparison with other fandoms and I'm sure there are intolerant people out there and anonymouse is absolutely valid in having come to that conclusion.

And I'm not saying I'm displeased in any way, quite the opposite, I'm very happy that you guys choose such a variety of genres/ships/styles, etc. in these fics. But you're absolutely right, I should actively show support and will read the fic.
hesychasm: (Default)

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[personal profile] hesychasm 2012-05-30 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for the modding in the thread above. I really thought people would have gotten over the fact that slash exists by now.

One suggestion about directing discussion, which obviously you're free to disregard: I notice that this post has no summary of the story in question, no thoughts from you as a reader. Most of your other story discussion posts do have these things, and I think what's written in the original mod post tends to be what's responded to by initial commenters.

This post, as written, is mostly about how different fans read the show differently, and how slash is viewed by the fandom. There is very little about the story itself. So I'm not surprised it has prompted a reaction such as the above, because it sort of implicitly undercuts the validity of slash as an interpretation, and also undercuts this story as one worth discussing just like any of the (mostly) MSR stories highlighted here.

Basically: I applaud the motivation to be more inclusive. But the execution, for me, could be tweaked a bit.

Now off to read the story. Woo Mulder/Krycek!

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[identity profile] edisto0304.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Btw, after reading the post below mine, I'm taking *everything* I said about Philes not being "militantly anti-slash" back!

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[identity profile] littlegreen42.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 11:22 pm (UTC)(link)
One of the fascinating things to me about fandom is how we're not all watching the same show.

So true, so true. I think that this is how so many different people can all enjoy the same show -- they kind of have to have their own interpretations of it in order to like it, because everyone has such different tastes and interests. And it is fascinating to see how many angles from which you can look at something.

(I know we're supposed to be reading and commenting on the story, but this is such a fascinating discussion in itself -- and I don't know if I am going to read the story.)

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[identity profile] zeldana.livejournal.com 2012-05-30 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)
After reading some of the replies above I'm actually rather intimidated to assert my opinion one way or another... but I was curious to see how others got into the show and what they look out for when they watch certain episodes. I was initially drawn to the paranormal aspect of it but I got hooked on the M/S relationship because it felt "right", at least to me. Barring the agents' genders and everything, they based everything entirely on trust and it's rare to see that on TV (and in real life) these days.

The episode "Milagro" was what drew me in.

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[identity profile] foxy11814.livejournal.com 2012-05-31 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
You know, it's funny, because I never considered XF to be "militantly anti-slash." The first time I ran across slash was in the XF community, and from my point of view, it was very popular. Of course, it isn't as popular as MSR, but then again, the show wasn't about Krycek, so that's what makes the difference.

But again, I think it's sad that people would even want to post negative comments about someone's ship. As you've said, we all read and watch things and have different interpretations about them because we have different backgrounds. That's true with regular fiction and fanfiction. And, of course, if you don't like the ship, then don't read it! Don't bash others that do! It's that simple really!

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(Anonymous) 2012-05-31 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
I'll admit I was anti-slash before I started in this fandom. So I can't really form an unbiased opinion on it, because two previous fandoms wrecked it for me.

I think that Mulder is more likely to end up with Krycek than Scully. But that's really the best I can do.
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[identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com 2012-05-31 02:46 am (UTC)(link)
Still to Come: a comment on the actual fic!

I am of the opinion that every ship (that doesn’t inherently involve rape) was created equal.

That said, I’m going to stick my neck out a little bit here and say that in this specific fandom, for me personally, Mulder/other-male-character pairings sometimes bother me, but ONLY because it bothers me to see Scully so blatantly overlooked. Scully is a strong, compelling female character with a role that is – against the odds – roughly equal in screen time and importance to Mulder’s. She is the female lead in a show full of almost exclusively male characters. Because of this, when a fic passes over the canonical M/S ship in favor of pairing Mulder with a male character, it rankles with me on a feminist level.

However, I’ve heard people say that part of what slash does is makes up for the fact that homosexual characters have always been excluded from or marginalized in popular fiction. For that reason I think slash deserves recognition, consideration, and support.

Also, I’ve recently been spending a LOT of time reading (and adoring) a slash pairing in another fandom, and I’ve come to realize that slash – apart from having much of the same appeal as het – has certain appeals that het does not have. There is a lot more leeway to explore relationship power-dynamics, as one example. What I’m saying is that slash is not just an alternative to het, where both the characters are male. It’s an alternative to het that offers some distinctly different things that may appeal to the reader as well.

Slash is far more than just the desire to see two dudes making out. Which for most of us probably goes without saying, but given a certain narrow-minded comment posted up-thread, it seems worth saying anyway.

Despite the opinions of a few narrow-minded (I'm going to leave it at “narrow-minded” for now) individuals in TXF fandom, I disagree that TXF fandom is anti-slash. The fact is that well over half of the fanfic posted on AO3 is slash. By that standard, of course a fandom like TXF, which is primarily het, is going to seem “anti-slash.” What TXF fandom actually is, is primarily MSR – nothing “anti” about it. I can definitely say that in all my time spent on Gossamer, I’ve seen LOTS of slash, and the comment up-thread is honestly the most anti-slash thing I’ve encountered in the fandom in five years.

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[identity profile] zeldana.livejournal.com 2012-05-31 02:52 am (UTC)(link)
One of the cool things about the X-Files is how M&S's relationship (as an example) is open to be interpreted either way. They work well together no matter how you look at them. Same with the other members of the cast -- the whole show, in fact, thrives more on what's unseen than what is expressly given. You kind of learn to hone in on subtle gestures and reading between the lines instead of being saturated with in-your-face shows of tacky romance (which I'm not particularly fond of -- nothing wrong if it's your cup of tea though!). Over the years I watched a few shows for some of the side characters and potential relationships that developed there (and the desperation that accompanied wanting to see more of them and less of the main cast XD), so I don't have anything against pairings that aren't directly obvious. I bet if I went back and re-watched certain episodes that heavily featured Krycek and Mulder interactions, I'd catch some things I've never seen before. And no matter how you look at it, the whole show is fictional so there technically cannot be any "wrong" pairings, imo. Though I can see how it could seem weird to those who've shipped one of both characters with different people for so long that it just doesn't make sense to see them with someone else.

Then you get an episode like Milagro that's pretty much sensory overload for those who have been straining to see *some* physical manifestation of a potential "what if"... and it's not even directly mentioned who Scully is in love with. But it was that exact line that drew me in. "Agent Scully is already in love." With who(m)? Why did they spend an entire episode focusing on her without actually giving anything away? I caught only two or three XF episodes before watching Milagro and needed to satiate my curiosity about that more than ever from that point on.

Thanks for the link! That was a really awesome interpretation. I'd comment on it but I feel I've already written enough. ^^;

Most of the stories I read fall between episodes 3-6, sometimes 7, I don't normally keep up with the timeline. But my favorite ones truly portray the characters realistically. I think, "Ahh, that's definitely something Skinner would say or do." Or "yup, that's a typical Scully!reaction." I'll have to make a list sometime, I tend to just jump around to whatever strikes my fancy that particular day.

Interesting how you got into the fanfiction before the series, though!
hesychasm: (Default)

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[personal profile] hesychasm 2012-05-31 03:47 am (UTC)(link)
Understood re: your method. I just tend to think of the OP as the jumping off point for the discussion to follow -- and here we are 19 comments later and the conversation is still mostly about slash/fan interpretation in general rather than the story specifically. For me, the best way to be inclusive is not to treat slash as if it's some kind of new and interesting fannish way of reading source material (because it's really, really not) or as some kind of delicate fannish institution that needs support from non-slashers to thrive (because slash is not going anywhere). For me, the best way to be inclusive and show support for slash is to discuss slash stories with the same attention and seriousness as the MSR stories and posts receive. Equal means equal, you know?

(But I'm speaking from personal bias here: I don't read much XF fic anymore, and what I do read these days is largely not het, so I really just want to get into some actual story discussion already.)

Okay, so having read the story now:

It's not one of my faves. I'm glad for the pointer to an M/K story I've never read before, but it needed a harder scrub in terms of beta reading and editing. Typos and mistakes in punctuation abounded, and it was really overwritten and overwrought in a lot of places: too much reaching for metaphors and similes that didn't quite work, too much telling re: the M/K dynamic. Like, I was amused at first at the explanation of Mulder's violence with Krycek as sublimated homoerotic urges, but I mean, that's The Mulder/Krycek Dynamic 101 -- I don't need the author to actually point it out to me in the story. Show it to me instead.

I also didn't quite believe, in this short format, that Krycek was actually in love with Mulder. Getting enemy slash to that point, for me (whether the characters express love or it's implied), requires a more technically accomplished writer working in a longer format. I'm thinking of torch's Ghosts series and Anna S/eliade/A. Leigh-Anne Childe's In A Dark Time. (Probably this is why I'm more of a buddy slash reader! But then I'm also more of a buddy het reader. Anyway.) With this story, I kind of felt like a math teacher grading a test where a student skips the steps: "Show me the work!"

Finally, I appreciated that Scully had a prominent role in the first third of the story, but I felt it was missing a reference to Melissa Scully's death which would have added another layer of complexity to her interactions with Krycek.

Bonus humorous point: Krycek slipping his handcuff off the leg of Mulder's desk. Almost every time there was a description of how either Mulder or Scully had handcuffed him to something, I thought, "Come on! That's totally not secure!" Not sure if this was intentional on the author's part, but it threw me out of the story every time it happened, so when Krycek finally escaped it was sort of like, "Duh?"

I'm interested to read other people's reactions!

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[identity profile] zinnia-rose.livejournal.com 2012-05-31 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
...do you realize how homophobic this comment sounds?

Edit: That came off a bit more aggressive than I intended, so let me ask this instead: why have you singled out gay relationships? There are LOADS of non-canon heterosexual pairings that people ship with just as much, if not more, vigor than Mulder/Krycek -- some, I daresay, are even in the X-Files fandom. I find it a little...disturbing that you think women have "obsessions with inventing male homosexual relationships."

Furthermore, why do you even care? If a Mulder/Krycek fic isn't to your liking, you're perfectly free to skip it and move on. There's no need to come and post a tirade about teh icky gayz and how they're taking over fandom.

Furthermore part 2, why do you "not do" homosexual porn more than you "don't do" heterosexual porn? Is gay porn somehow worse than straight porn? That's a flat-out offensive implication and I am calling you out on it.
Edited 2012-05-31 05:05 (UTC)
hesychasm: (Default)

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[personal profile] hesychasm 2012-05-31 07:02 am (UTC)(link)
Argh, I know I came off strident in that first paragraph (I totally rewrote it multiple times, too) but my intention was not to make you feel bad about how you're running your own comm! I apologize. What I should have said at the start was that I understand that this has primarily been an MSR-focused place, so it is of course natural that you'd want to, I suppose, preface a discussion about a slash story here with some commentary on slash's place in the fandom. And I understand that people who aren't used to reading XF slash would perhaps find that discussion new and interesting. My perspective on it is just different. That's why I tried to repeat "For me" and mention my own bias.

Some of the metaphors and similes that didn't work for me (just in the first third or I'd be here all night):

-- her voice coming out like the worn-away spots on a satin pump -- not even sure what this means
-- She issues forth a Shhh that is like the waves that lovingly assault the shore -- "lovingly," what?
-- He can practically hear the egg-shaped sound of the pipes dripping onto the concrete floor -- "egg-shaped"??

But then some things did work for me:

-- It was fascinating, beholding the artifacts of her unwinding femininity, all of the bottles that held breaths of a province he couldn't fathom.
-- Alex tries to breathe through his nose, but he can't quite, so when he speaks, he pants like an obscene caller.
-- The wallpaper reminds him of a sailor's uniform. There's an innocent look about blue and white, something that doesn't just hint, but speaks loudly of such promise, of potential.

You said:

In general, I don't like reading enemy hate-sex, so I was fine with keeping it mostly in Krycek's head. I thought Mulder beat up on Krycek quite a lot, really.

I'm completely fine with it being written in a limited Krycek perspective -- that's how I prefer my M/K usually. I just felt like the Mulder/Krycek Dynamic 101 stuff here felt more like character meta the author was inserting rather than something organic to the character and how he'd think about their relationship (perhaps this was the author's control over limited vs. omniscient 3rd person slipping). Again, the first reference amused me, but then this subsequent paragraph was just too much:

When he awakes, his arm is stiff, understandably, from being handcuffed to the metal headboard of Mulder's bed all night. It's not a kink, Mulder had explained, I just don't trust you. Whatever, Alex murmured, not really caring either way. It is a kink, it is so a kink- the lack of basic human trust between the two of them is like the world's biggest kink. When Mulder fucked him, it was very much an extension of all of those beatings, but also, bizarrely, an extension of their conversation earlier that night. It was a way of saying, I understand you, and I hate you, and I hate myself for understanding.

I agree with you that Mulder doesn't believe Krycek's in love with him, and your point about how Mulder would sacrifice himself for a loved one is excellent. I just didn't believe in Krycek's love from Krycek's perspective either.

You said:

Mention of Melissa's death would have given more dimension to the story, although I'm not sure where the writer could have worked it in.

When Scully takes Krycek back to her apartment, I think he could have had at least a fleeting thought: the last time he was there he was involved in the accidental killing of Scully's sister. The characters don't have to bring it up with each other -- they both know already. But I felt the author needed to bring it up with the readers -- because then we are reminded that there's this layer to the S/K interaction.

You said:

I haven't had much luck getting people to read long fic—in any genre.

Totally understood and agree. Shorter length stories work better for discussion.


(Okay, I will be amazed if this posts with all HTML code correct!)

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