wendelah1: (But what of that?)
[personal profile] wendelah1 posting in [community profile] xf_book_club
One of the things that impresses me about this story, is the intensity of the (albeit short) sex scene. It's amazing what an author can do with a few choice pieces of dialogue in the right setting. If you're a Krycek/Mulder fan, and hell even if you're not, you'll find this story very appealing.
~Bright Shiny Objects

I'm not so sure about that, but we shall see.

One of the fascinating things to me about fandom is how we're not all watching the same show.

Let's try again, shall we?

While we may all be playing the same DVDs (known hereafter as The X-Files), we can have completely different reactions to the same episode. For example, I think "Paper Hearts" is one of the worst episodes of the series but a good friend believes it's the best, and we can both make convincing arguments for our respective positions. Fans can make completely opposite interpretations of what it meant when Mulder told Scully that he even made his parents call him "Mulder." What hooks us into the show (and then the fandom) isn't always the same thing either. For some fans, The X-Files is about Mulder and Scully, two heroic FBI agents who investigate the inexplicable and fight the forces of evil. For others, it's a show about Mulder and Scully, two gorgeous and sexy FBI agents who fall in love, and okay yeah, so they solve crimes sometimes, too. And for some fans of the series, the most important or at least the most fascinating thing about The X-Files is the character of Alex Krycek.

Someone posted to the Confessions from the Basement tumblr that they "wished this fandom wasn't so militantly anti-slash." I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not anti-slash. I read slash, although less in this fandom than most. Although you've probably already read it, here you go, anonymouse from tumblr, have some great Mulder/Krycek slash.

Read "Let's Play House."

Love it or hate it, please let us know what you think. And please, especially if you want to read more slash, leave us some suggestions in the nomination post for next time.

(frozen)

Date: 2012-05-30 10:45 pm (UTC)
hesychasm: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hesychasm
Thank you for the modding in the thread above. I really thought people would have gotten over the fact that slash exists by now.

One suggestion about directing discussion, which obviously you're free to disregard: I notice that this post has no summary of the story in question, no thoughts from you as a reader. Most of your other story discussion posts do have these things, and I think what's written in the original mod post tends to be what's responded to by initial commenters.

This post, as written, is mostly about how different fans read the show differently, and how slash is viewed by the fandom. There is very little about the story itself. So I'm not surprised it has prompted a reaction such as the above, because it sort of implicitly undercuts the validity of slash as an interpretation, and also undercuts this story as one worth discussing just like any of the (mostly) MSR stories highlighted here.

Basically: I applaud the motivation to be more inclusive. But the execution, for me, could be tweaked a bit.

Now off to read the story. Woo Mulder/Krycek!

(frozen)

Date: 2012-05-31 03:47 am (UTC)
hesychasm: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hesychasm
Understood re: your method. I just tend to think of the OP as the jumping off point for the discussion to follow -- and here we are 19 comments later and the conversation is still mostly about slash/fan interpretation in general rather than the story specifically. For me, the best way to be inclusive is not to treat slash as if it's some kind of new and interesting fannish way of reading source material (because it's really, really not) or as some kind of delicate fannish institution that needs support from non-slashers to thrive (because slash is not going anywhere). For me, the best way to be inclusive and show support for slash is to discuss slash stories with the same attention and seriousness as the MSR stories and posts receive. Equal means equal, you know?

(But I'm speaking from personal bias here: I don't read much XF fic anymore, and what I do read these days is largely not het, so I really just want to get into some actual story discussion already.)

Okay, so having read the story now:

It's not one of my faves. I'm glad for the pointer to an M/K story I've never read before, but it needed a harder scrub in terms of beta reading and editing. Typos and mistakes in punctuation abounded, and it was really overwritten and overwrought in a lot of places: too much reaching for metaphors and similes that didn't quite work, too much telling re: the M/K dynamic. Like, I was amused at first at the explanation of Mulder's violence with Krycek as sublimated homoerotic urges, but I mean, that's The Mulder/Krycek Dynamic 101 -- I don't need the author to actually point it out to me in the story. Show it to me instead.

I also didn't quite believe, in this short format, that Krycek was actually in love with Mulder. Getting enemy slash to that point, for me (whether the characters express love or it's implied), requires a more technically accomplished writer working in a longer format. I'm thinking of torch's Ghosts series and Anna S/eliade/A. Leigh-Anne Childe's In A Dark Time. (Probably this is why I'm more of a buddy slash reader! But then I'm also more of a buddy het reader. Anyway.) With this story, I kind of felt like a math teacher grading a test where a student skips the steps: "Show me the work!"

Finally, I appreciated that Scully had a prominent role in the first third of the story, but I felt it was missing a reference to Melissa Scully's death which would have added another layer of complexity to her interactions with Krycek.

Bonus humorous point: Krycek slipping his handcuff off the leg of Mulder's desk. Almost every time there was a description of how either Mulder or Scully had handcuffed him to something, I thought, "Come on! That's totally not secure!" Not sure if this was intentional on the author's part, but it threw me out of the story every time it happened, so when Krycek finally escaped it was sort of like, "Duh?"

I'm interested to read other people's reactions!

(frozen)

Date: 2012-05-31 07:02 am (UTC)
hesychasm: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hesychasm
Argh, I know I came off strident in that first paragraph (I totally rewrote it multiple times, too) but my intention was not to make you feel bad about how you're running your own comm! I apologize. What I should have said at the start was that I understand that this has primarily been an MSR-focused place, so it is of course natural that you'd want to, I suppose, preface a discussion about a slash story here with some commentary on slash's place in the fandom. And I understand that people who aren't used to reading XF slash would perhaps find that discussion new and interesting. My perspective on it is just different. That's why I tried to repeat "For me" and mention my own bias.

Some of the metaphors and similes that didn't work for me (just in the first third or I'd be here all night):

-- her voice coming out like the worn-away spots on a satin pump -- not even sure what this means
-- She issues forth a Shhh that is like the waves that lovingly assault the shore -- "lovingly," what?
-- He can practically hear the egg-shaped sound of the pipes dripping onto the concrete floor -- "egg-shaped"??

But then some things did work for me:

-- It was fascinating, beholding the artifacts of her unwinding femininity, all of the bottles that held breaths of a province he couldn't fathom.
-- Alex tries to breathe through his nose, but he can't quite, so when he speaks, he pants like an obscene caller.
-- The wallpaper reminds him of a sailor's uniform. There's an innocent look about blue and white, something that doesn't just hint, but speaks loudly of such promise, of potential.

You said:

In general, I don't like reading enemy hate-sex, so I was fine with keeping it mostly in Krycek's head. I thought Mulder beat up on Krycek quite a lot, really.

I'm completely fine with it being written in a limited Krycek perspective -- that's how I prefer my M/K usually. I just felt like the Mulder/Krycek Dynamic 101 stuff here felt more like character meta the author was inserting rather than something organic to the character and how he'd think about their relationship (perhaps this was the author's control over limited vs. omniscient 3rd person slipping). Again, the first reference amused me, but then this subsequent paragraph was just too much:

When he awakes, his arm is stiff, understandably, from being handcuffed to the metal headboard of Mulder's bed all night. It's not a kink, Mulder had explained, I just don't trust you. Whatever, Alex murmured, not really caring either way. It is a kink, it is so a kink- the lack of basic human trust between the two of them is like the world's biggest kink. When Mulder fucked him, it was very much an extension of all of those beatings, but also, bizarrely, an extension of their conversation earlier that night. It was a way of saying, I understand you, and I hate you, and I hate myself for understanding.

I agree with you that Mulder doesn't believe Krycek's in love with him, and your point about how Mulder would sacrifice himself for a loved one is excellent. I just didn't believe in Krycek's love from Krycek's perspective either.

You said:

Mention of Melissa's death would have given more dimension to the story, although I'm not sure where the writer could have worked it in.

When Scully takes Krycek back to her apartment, I think he could have had at least a fleeting thought: the last time he was there he was involved in the accidental killing of Scully's sister. The characters don't have to bring it up with each other -- they both know already. But I felt the author needed to bring it up with the readers -- because then we are reminded that there's this layer to the S/K interaction.

You said:

I haven't had much luck getting people to read long fic—in any genre.

Totally understood and agree. Shorter length stories work better for discussion.


(Okay, I will be amazed if this posts with all HTML code correct!)

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