I think the thing about Mary Sues is that nobody can really agree on what one is or isn't. My own loose definition is "A character who, due to how they are depicted, feels like a stand in for either the author, or for the hypothetical reader." I don't have any set-in-stone qualifications beyond that.
You asked me if I thought YPR's Scully was a stand-in for the author, and I'm gonna have to say yes, or perhaps a stand-in for the hypothetical reader. That wasn't ALL she was, but there was just waaaay too much "Character who women can easily identify with and live vicariously through" about her for her to not feel like some kind of a stand-in. Like I said, this fic turns her into the smart, long-suffering best friend who's crushing hard. Like Taylor Swift in that one song, or Bridget Jones with an edge.
My idea of a Scully Mary Sue is the completely OOC Scully in "Where There's a Will." The Scully who fake marries Mulder and happily turns herself into a stay-at-home Mom/Stepford wife in order to adopt two children. That's a Mary Sue Scully. Or the Scully in "Worth Breaking" who starts having "meaningless" sex with Mulder because he wants to and she can't say no. This Scully then spends the next 700K alternating between whining to her therapist about how terrible it is to be having sex with Mulder and screwing his brains out. WTF? That's a Mary Sue Scully for sure.
I actually haven't read either of these fics, but Scully certainly does sound Mary Sue-ish in both of them. I guess the difference between us is that you seem to think in terms of "Mary Sue or Not Mary Sue?" whereas I only think in terms of "How Mary Sue-ish is this character?" The examples you gave of her being a Mary Sue were, as you said "completely OOC," whereas I do not have that requirement. In fact, I find her Mary Sue-ishness in YPR all the more obvious because it's contrasted by parts of the fic where she's actually quite in character and not Mary Sue-ish (which I did mention, in my previous comment. Just sayin').
Mary Sues have no sense of irony whatsoever.
I disagree that this is a fundamental principal of Mary Sues. In fact, I think that if a character seems canonically unaware or unconcerned with how absurd her life is, then it can be Mary Sue-ish for that character to be written as aware and/or concerned about it. Because in that case, instead of exploring why the character isn't more aware or concerned, the writer is simply making the character more like herself and the audience, who are aware of the absurdity.
However, it's a bit of a moot point in Scully's case, as canonical Scully seems fairly aware of how absurd her life is.
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winterfish
Re: Part 1/2
Date: 2014-08-31 03:25 am (UTC)You asked me if I thought YPR's Scully was a stand-in for the author, and I'm gonna have to say yes, or perhaps a stand-in for the hypothetical reader. That wasn't ALL she was, but there was just waaaay too much "Character who women can easily identify with and live vicariously through" about her for her to not feel like some kind of a stand-in. Like I said, this fic turns her into the smart, long-suffering best friend who's crushing hard. Like Taylor Swift in that one song, or Bridget Jones with an edge.
My idea of a Scully Mary Sue is the completely OOC Scully in "Where There's a Will." The Scully who fake marries Mulder and happily turns herself into a stay-at-home Mom/Stepford wife in order to adopt two children. That's a Mary Sue Scully. Or the Scully in "Worth Breaking" who starts having "meaningless" sex with Mulder because he wants to and she can't say no. This Scully then spends the next 700K alternating between whining to her therapist about how terrible it is to be having sex with Mulder and screwing his brains out. WTF? That's a Mary Sue Scully for sure.
I actually haven't read either of these fics, but Scully certainly does sound Mary Sue-ish in both of them. I guess the difference between us is that you seem to think in terms of "Mary Sue or Not Mary Sue?" whereas I only think in terms of "How Mary Sue-ish is this character?" The examples you gave of her being a Mary Sue were, as you said "completely OOC," whereas I do not have that requirement. In fact, I find her Mary Sue-ishness in YPR all the more obvious because it's contrasted by parts of the fic where she's actually quite in character and not Mary Sue-ish (which I did mention, in my previous comment. Just sayin').
Mary Sues have no sense of irony whatsoever.
I disagree that this is a fundamental principal of Mary Sues. In fact, I think that if a character seems canonically unaware or unconcerned with how absurd her life is, then it can be Mary Sue-ish for that character to be written as aware and/or concerned about it. Because in that case, instead of exploring why the character isn't more aware or concerned, the writer is simply making the character more like herself and the audience, who are aware of the absurdity.
However, it's a bit of a moot point in Scully's case, as canonical Scully seems fairly aware of how absurd her life is.