wendelah1: (old people have sex?)
[personal profile] wendelah1 posting in [community profile] xf_book_club
Fall is here, though you'd never know it by the temperatures in SoCal. I read "Up the Ladder" in 2007, when I was new to the fandom. It's novella length, at 30,000+ words, but wow, it is a fast read. I would have pegged the word count at half that or less. It was originally posted in 1997. Yep. This is old-school fanfiction at its best.

Summary: Marita comes through for Mulder, giving him what he wants most. But twenty-five years haven't brought as many changes as he might have thought, and her gift might be more dangerous than anything he's faced to date. And what's up with those bees? A potpourri of Conspiracy elements with many old favorites present. Note: Almost everything here about bees is actually true, except for the parts that are just paranoia.

"Up the Ladder"

The link is to AO3, where you can easily leave feedback for our author, but you can read this at her website or at Gossamer if you prefer. Leave your suggestions at the nomination post. And don't forget to let us know what you think.

Date: 2011-10-05 02:24 am (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
Just jumping in to say that if there's anyone else like me who prefers to read fanfic in the simple, classic format - white page, black printing, nothing else on the page but text, and all the usual headers in the usual format - then you can find a copy here (http://mulderinjeopardyx.com/stories/u/uptheladder1.txt). (just replace the 1 with 2 in the URL for the second part)

DON'T do as I did, google search the fic, and start reading the version posted at x-files.bytewright.com, because for some reason it's ten thousand words shorter than it ought to be.

Date: 2011-10-08 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] infinitlight.livejournal.com
I actually like AO3's format (although not their search function, grrr), but some days I wish I could apply format=light to the entire internet.

Date: 2011-10-08 11:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] infinitlight.livejournal.com
I've always liked RivkaT's fondness for fandom cliches: in this case Scully taking care of Samantha, the Mulder-Scully-Krycek roadtrip. They're the kind of ideas that many fanfic writers use (well, maybe they hadn't been so done to death in 1997), but well-written and often with a twist. There's something really comforting about her fic for me for this reason, even though it's frequently disturbing, horrifying and about scary things.

It's a good story. I like the bee plot and the canon-compliant use of Krycek and Marita. I like that it feels very much rooted in the old school, like [livejournal.com profile] wendelah1 said. There was a lot of bad fanfiction in the old school, but people were writing stories as the show changed. I think that's exciting in a way that stories written now aren't.

I'm not so fond of the development of Scully and Samantha's relationship and the background M/S. Neither of them rings particularly true for me--I have awkward feelings about Scully accepting Samantha as a substitute for a child of her own, and although the M/S relationship is really background to the story it's too sweet for me.

Date: 2011-10-09 04:01 am (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
I'm only half way through so far, and it's be so long that I'm finding I hardly remember what's going to happen, but it's been a very interesting read so far. Not that I'm surprised, since it's RivkaT.

I keep reminding myself that this really is old school fic. It doesn't feel nearly as old school to me as a lot of fics do, probably because the writing is so sharp, and the entire fic (plot and characterizations) are quite radical. Though not as radical as some of Rivkat's other fics.

I'm liking the bee plot. It's creepy and has a disturbing kind of plausibility that many mytharc stories don't have. Plus the way it's written makes it very clear and intelligible without it feeling dumbed down. I suspect (and hope) this story was begun immediately after Zero Sum aired. It's a very cool example of fanfic that takes the dropped threads of an important plot point and runs with them.

The Scully/other thing was tough for me, but when I think about this fic probably having been written before the end of S4, it suddenly seems a lot less of an extreme possibility that Scully would go off, get cured of cancer, and develop feeling for her doctor. The bit about Scully immediately taking in Samantha as a substitute child is troubling to me too, [livejournal.com profile] infinitlight, and I don't think canon Scully would share this Scully's motivations, at least not in the spirit they are expressed to us. But it is pretty interesting that Rivkat wrote a Scully-is-infertile storyline before it became canon on the show.

[livejournal.com profile] infinitlight, you say the M/S dynamic in this story is too sweet for you. Does it get warm and fuzzy in the second half, because so far I would say just the opposite. Despite the abundance of domestic trappings they seem to go through in this fic (which bothers me), their relationships seems, as with all of Rivkat's fics, to be quite dark, and definitely unhealthy.

But as always, the thing I like about Rivkat's writing is the way she seems to experimentally push Mulder and Scully's characterizations to extremes in order to reveal certain hidden truths about them, and in order to discover what things about them remain true in the stress she puts them under.

There's a kind of glibness and insensitivity with which her characters reflect on things, that makes for some interesting observations, of themselves, others, and the patterns of the XF narrative:

Mulder knew that Skinner saw Scully as some sort of embodiment of truth, justice, and the American way -- "nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered," or something like that.

-

Matt doesn't need to know that everything I say to him is the absolute truth."

Suddenly there was no more pain in his throat; the words came smoothly. "I think that's the most awful thing you've ever said to me. I can't believe that you wouldn't respect yourself enough to wait for someone who'll demand the truth from you every time."

-

Not for the first time, he wondered about the connection between Deep Throat, Mr. X, and Marita. How did they decide -- the one who gets the short straw has to tantalize, mislead and succor Mulder until he or she is killed? What wheels within wheels were turning at the UN, the Pentagon, the NSA?

-

Yes. It had been easy to imagine that, when Sam came back, everything would be perfect and he'd be whole. The rotten foundations of that lie had been exposed by her return, and he hadn't quite managed to construct another myth to explain his existence.


Or my personal favorite for creepy shippiness at it's finest:

"Why do you look at each other like that?" Samantha asked him when Scully was putting away the leftovers.

"Like what?"

She shrugged and looked away, squirming on the chair. "I don't know. Like you want to hit each other, but not really."

Mulder laughed, immediately shocked at how bitter the noise sounded. "Tell you what, Sam. As soon as I figure it out, I'll let you know."


None of the characters look so nice under the light this fic shines on them, but for the most part I think they are still in character, which is what I find so interesting.

Date: 2011-10-09 07:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] infinitlight.livejournal.com
I found the M/S relationship toward the end of the fic to be...maybe too sweet isn't quite what I'm reaching for. There's plot-necessitated full body contact. There's giggling. I found the relationship earlier in the fic much easier to digest--I thought Mulder's withdrawing from Scully and Samantha very believable.

I'd be interested to hear what you think.

None of the characters look so nice under the light this fic shines on them, but for the most part I think they are still in character, which is what I find so interesting.

RivkaT doesn't show her characters a lot of sympathy, either in story angst or in exploring their characterization. It's interesting to me because a lot of fic writers seem to try to see/explore the best in the characters.

I like that creepy shippiness excerpt, as you say it's creepy but kind of accurate. I'm not sure how well it works coming from Samantha.

Date: 2011-10-10 03:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maria-37-ann.livejournal.com
I find myself fairly torn on this fic. I love the X-file with the bees and I love the appearance of Samantha as another twist. Those both seem to organically flow from the direction of the series during fourth season. I also think the horror of the black goo invading your brain and memories was done quite well.

However, the workings of the plot and some of the concepts to prop it up are paper thin and unnecessary. I can see where the author said, "I need to make sure Mulder tries to leave now" or "I need to make sure Scully gets custody of Samantha" or "I need a reason that Mulder has had his head fucked with" and as a result I will try this machination to get there, but the machinations are not well blended with what we know of the characters or how such a thing would work in the real world so they stick out without flowing naturally as part of the story. Some examples:

1. Scully's fiance: I don't need to know his name or anything about him because he's pretty much there for one reason - to fuck with Mulder's head. Mulder tells us, but we do not see, that he makes Scully sparkle and the fact that Mulder has to tell us this but we do not glean it from the story says a lot about the lack of attachment the readers and Scully really have with this guy. I like that the author manages not to get bogged down in the 'the guy's a jerk' cliche - other than vague references to him being a bit paternalistic - but it doesn't move beyond 'obvious plot device to fuck with Mulder and introduce the possibility of Scully leaving'. I can see Scully having a relationship with other people, but this one is just done so halfhearted-ly that the reader sees that he's just there to be an obstacle not a character and not a particularly serious obstacle at that.

2. I can see Mulder being Mulder and leaving, I can even envision a situation in which Mulder ditches Scully by going back to the X-Files without her, but the way this is set up again did not make me believe it. It felt like a forced plot point.

3. The legal scenes: None of this rang true and I will avoid a lengthy rant on the subject, but no one would care if Mulder wanted custody. The State would be unlikely to get involved. Also, there is NEVER a reason for your lawyer to not talk on your behalf in court. EVER.

4. The Gunmen's random suspicion of Scully also felt a bit forced to me even at that point in the series.

Ultimately, I guess I wanted more of the x-file in this one and less of the attempts to examine the Mulder/Scully relationship as a result of the x-file because it just didn't work for me.

Date: 2011-10-12 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] infinitlight.livejournal.com
The legal scenes: I don't know anything about law and they seemed pretty suspect even to me. I think it was a fashion in fanfic for a while to have these scenes, particularly focusing on child custody. I've read a ton of them, but I can't say they're something I enjoy reading, accurate or not.

Date: 2011-10-12 03:03 am (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
Okay, now that I've read the whole thing--

Things I like:

- I think my favorite thing about this fic is how cinematic it feels. There are so many scenes that make me wish it could be made into a movie, because it would be absolute dynamite on the screen. Particularly the scene where Mulder comes over and discovers Scully has been possessed by the oilien, the scene where Mulder lets the oilien trade Scully's body for his, and the entire scene in the desert with the bomb going off behind them and the bees trapping them in the car as they speed away.

- Mulder and Scully's relationship: I like that the fic has a few very striking nods to their UST, and that their mutual codepency and dedication to each other is always a strong undercurrent of the story, but that it doesn't take a staring role. Ultimately, despite the major upheaval going on in their partnership, Mulder and Scully are all business. One of my favorite moments of the fic is when Mulder does the body swap with the oilien:

Its mouth -- Scully's mouth -- was inches from his face.
"Transfer has to be accomplished somehow," it said. "Isn't this
appropriate?"

"Fuck you," he said, low and harsh.

"Do you want me to tell you that she wants you? That she
wakes with your name on her lips and her hands between her legs?"

"Scully," he said, looking at her lovely mouth and not at her
swirling eyes, "if you can hear me, I know this isn't you."

It chuckled and pulled his face down.


Maybe what the oilien says is true. Maybe it isn't. It's certainly shocking, but there are way more important things going on, and it doesn;t bear thinking about. I also really like the twist that Mulder is brainwashed too, so when he seemingly bares his heart by saying, "There is no one but Scully," there's the question of how close those sentiments are to his own.

I like that in the course of the fic their relationship goes from being seriously in question, to more united than ever, but that there's no real resolution - no kiss on the lips, no token RST gesture.

- The scene where the bees swarm the mouse. It's horrible, and I actually think it's creepier than showing the bees swarming a person, like in Zero Sum. Zero Sum never made me cringe, but this one little mouse did. And the fact that it's Scully who is in charge of this disturbing demonstration makes the scene all the more unnerving.

- Scully actually gets to do something awesome as a scientist and manufacture a pheromone to ward off the bees. But even more than that, I love that she makes sure samples of the pheromone are sent all over the place, so that it can't be destroyed. This kind of strategic thinking was all but non-existent in TXF - clumsily ignored because the writers didn't seem to want to have to follow through on any of their plot threads. It's vexing to be reminded of the weaknesses of canon, but well worth it, for the chance to read fanfic that has Mulder and Scully protecting their evidence and broadening the scope of their ambitions.


- The fics explanation of the mytharc. It must have been great to have watched the show back where there was still any hope that all the pieces of the mytharc might somehow fit together. Speculating on the answers must have been a lot of fun. I love the explanation of the black oil as an entirely separate kind of alien that is inhabiting the greys, just as it plans to inhabit us. It's creepy, and it makes sense, at least until S5 mytharc comes along.

Date: 2011-10-12 03:03 am (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
Things I don't like:


- I generally like the M/S relationship, but I do agree with [livejournal.com profile] infinitlight, particularly with regard to the scene by Sam's hospital bed near the end of the fic - it's a bit too close to the cliched "comforting emotional moment" seen in so many other, less edgy, less original fics. Scully's speech about climbing the ladder is great, but I think rivkat could have cut out most of the rest of that section.

- This line: She wanted to fix him, so desperately that she'd do anything, but it was going against the laws of nature to hope for success. I don't think Scully has ever wanted to fix Mulder. Not that she doesn't hurt for him when he's hurt, and want to protect him, but the whole Florence Nightingale bit is so not her.

- Krycek refuses to give Scully the code to postpone the bomb, because he claims he'd rather die than risk colonization by the black oil. But from everything we've seen of Krycek, this is totally unrealistic. Krycek values his own skin first and foremost, and he's waaaay to used to being used and manipulated to be so terrified of black oil possession.

- Krycek just happens to be able to drug Mulder and implant suggestions in his head? Marita risked her life to give Mulder back his sister, merely because she's into him? Scully somehow guesses that 'sunflower seeds' is the code to the detonater? I'm not buying it.

- Krycek and Mulder are far to chummy. I know that many of the M/K shippers buy into this kind of thing no problem, but it just seems ridiculous to me. They're enemies. He's a murderous traitor. This witty sparing (practically flirting) thing they're doing is way too casual. Mulder isn't five; I'm pretty sure he's capable of hating someone for more than five minutes without getting bored and wanting to be friends again.

Date: 2011-10-12 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maria-37-ann.livejournal.com
One quick note on this, as I fear I was misunderstood earlier. Good conflict is created when the obstacles are believable and real. I cared not a wit for Scully's fiance or what it did to Mulder because it was crystal clear that he was there to fuck with Mulder and not to last. That kind of obstacle, for me, does nothing but slow a story down, not create conflict or plot. Using a Scully-other or Mulder-other relationship in an MSR story to create conflict or advance the plot is fine - but here it was done without skill and thus without adding anything to the plot or the characters.

I agree with pretty much everything that tied this to Zero Sum, I thought that episode had so much more potential than CC and Co ever gave it. Also, I agree the Mulder family psychodrama stuff is also pretty weak.

Date: 2011-10-14 03:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maria-37-ann.livejournal.com
Well between my legal inaccuracies (here and in TXF proper) and your medical ones, there are plenty to go around. :)

Another clarification - there were parts I liked about this story, the x-file, the Samantha return plot line, etc., but I had quibbles too that I mentioned above, but won't rehash again.

Date: 2011-10-15 02:53 am (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
I'm uncomfortable with an oncologist falling in love with a patient he's actively treating, dating her and presumably taking her to bed, an ethical dilemma that's not commented on.

Yeah, the idea that Scully would go for that rings false with me. Not that I'm shaking my finger at her. It's not her fault that Max wasn't being professional. I just don't think she'd have a relationship with this guy in this circumstance.

The only plot element I can think of that I didn't like is the Mulder family psychodrama. I can't see Mulder as a survivor of a physically abusive father. That became a fanfic cliché at a certain point, one I don't personally care for.

Normally this would have bothered me more, but I pretty much just wrote it off as rivkat writing like rivkat, i.e., giving her character an even more fucked up internal life than he already has. But no, I don't see Mulder as a survivor of a physically abusive home life either, beyond maybe a belting now and then.

Good conflict is created when the obstacles are believable and real. I cared not a wit for Scully's fiance or what it did to Mulder because it was crystal clear that he was there to fuck with Mulder and not to last.

I feel like that was kind of the point. The thing that Max brings to the story has more to do with Scully than Mulder. Scully spends two months away from the x-files, forms a relationship with this man, believes she cares about him, and he proposes. It's an idealized "normal life" being offered on a platter. Yet there's no substance to it, it's a plot device she made for herself, and she lays it out for Mulder to see how it tracks with reality, but it doesn't take. She returns to work, to Mulder, and she's spookier, a bit more 'abnormal', than she's ever been.

The part that throws me (in fact it's probably my least favorite line of the fic) is this:

"How can you love someone so much who doesn't believe in the things that are most important to you?"

He took a deep breath through his nose and closed his eyes. "It's not that hard," he said.


I'm not buying that she loved this guy. I'm not even buying that she thought she might love him. I'm certainly not buying that she'd say so to Mulder. I can buy that she thought Max might actually love her, and that she wasn't thinking about it beyond that, but that's about it. I think Scully is not the type to use the word love in anything other than the most intimate or grave of circumstances. (unless it's about family)

I also take issue with Mulder's response to her. The implication is obviously that he loves her. Which is fine, but since when does Scully not believe the things that are most important to him? Sure, she doesn't believe in the specifics, but she's always believed the most important parts. She believes in finding the truth, she believes in exposing corruption and deciet, she believes in the work even if she doesn't believe in Mulder's explanations to individual cases. And in this situation she's come back because of her belief in their work.

It's like this part was written purely because it seemed like a sharp, clever soundbite, rather than because it actually fits the characters.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
Anything by RivaT is aces with me, and my opinion of this bravely conceived adventure is very high. I like the dry distance with which she regards her characters, which makes Mulder's "It's not too hard" pop. Indirect declarations of love are the perfect blend of sap, angst, denial, and confession.

It's just an impression, but I feel that the ship and the remarkable bee-and-alien casefile strive against each other a little. Although I'm never averse to an /other complication--stories require conflict--this one seemed oddly gratuitous. But we must remember that our sensibilities have become infected by the love that then could not speak its name but has since become canon and rather confining to ficsters. This author could never be put in a cage.

The Samantha story is sheer horror, and we leave the poor little thing in a state of unconscious brain-warp. It's believable, though, and better than Chris Carter's sentimental write-off. I was especially fascinated by Mulder's psychological meltdown once he achieved his fondest wish. This guy doesn't really know what he wants, except Scully, though his busy schedule never seems to allow him to bed her.

I suppose the Mulder/Krycek cooperation is unlikely, but I like Krycek in the same don't-bother-me-with-facts way that RT does. And although unconvinced by the abused child theory of Mulderneurosis, it had become a fandom trope and this writer at least uses it sparingly.

Krycek. Such a bone of contention. But if we want tears and arguments rather than a polite exchange of opinions, we might dip into--I'm blocking. Continued in next post.













Date: 2011-10-16 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
Here I am. Sarah Ellen Parsons' Prone and sequels. Talk about your transgressive.

I don't suppose this is a serious Club suggestion. Individuals are free to transgress.

Date: 2011-10-18 09:04 pm (UTC)
ext_20969: (Default)
From: [identity profile] amyhit.livejournal.com
Anything by RivaT is aces with me, and my opinion of this bravely conceived adventure is very high. I like the dry distance with which she regards her characters,

This.

I've always really liked RivkaT's fanfic, even though she's a looong way from my usual taste, and it has a lot to do with that, as you say, dry distance. Her writing is dark but not mirthless, exploratory but direct, and provocative but never entirely outrageous. Her stories are comprised of these striking and cinematic leaps of imagination, and then the matter of how to get canon to bend to those imaginings, in a way that will be pleasing, if unnerving, to the reader. This is something she seems to have a particular skill in doing.

It's just an impression, but I feel that the ship and the remarkable bee-and-alien casefile strive against each other a little.

Yes, I think you're right. I like the over all M/S dynamic in UTL, but whenever the fic does something that caters directly to the development of their relationship, it feels a bit tacked on.

But as you say, this is an old school fic. Things which seem clunky today often had a lot more novelty in early 1997. I tend to think of everything written before 1998 as being "first wave XF fanfic", and in that sense the fic writers who were producing during that time were pioneers. They were making our future fanon for us.

Date: 2017-01-01 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bmerb.livejournal.com
Any and all criticisms aside I thoroughly enjoy this story. I just spent some time delving into virtual season 8, led there by sniffing out a Khyber fic written for it. VS8 had some good ideas but omg it went utterly trope laden and ridiculously predictable very quickly. So jumping directly from that into UTL was a total breath of fresh air, or perhaps a leap into cold water. I do love RivkaT's horror elements, her dark characterizations, and her dry distance as someone else said. Add to that her intelligent use of actual science and fact about bees and having Scully successfully ACHIEVING important breakthroughs using her skills and I'm happy. Include some UST without RST and with insight into Mulders screwy psyche and it's just a pleasure for me. Gees can you tell I was utterly burned out on "fluffy casefiles" from VS8? Sheesh!

Date: 2017-01-01 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bmerb.livejournal.com
*GASP* I totally missed that there was a new story!!! And no, not burned out on PL, the writing quality is too good for that. Also I love Dr Scully's School For Exceptional Boys (I think that's the title?) oh so much and haven't read all of PLs stuff yet though I did get stuck at the alternate universe M&S post-civil war era story and sort of lost my taste a bit there.

Yeah it wasn't so much that the VS8 stories were pure fluff, more like they were just the same basic story recycled over and over and over. Gak. Plus Mulder was critically injured in every episode about, which was too much even for the XF, particularly when they were trying to keep a running cohesive plot. Nobody recovers from both a broken arm and a broken leg in just 3 weeks, or from abdominal gunshot in 2 weeks. XF was always unrealistic in terms of so many things, but they also were only occasionally specific with timelines, but VS8 was pretty much trying to date absolutely everything. Anyway... Will go read the new one!

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