wendelah1: (But what of that?)
[personal profile] wendelah1 posting in [community profile] xf_book_club
One of the things that impresses me about this story, is the intensity of the (albeit short) sex scene. It's amazing what an author can do with a few choice pieces of dialogue in the right setting. If you're a Krycek/Mulder fan, and hell even if you're not, you'll find this story very appealing.
~Bright Shiny Objects

I'm not so sure about that, but we shall see.

One of the fascinating things to me about fandom is how we're not all watching the same show.

Let's try again, shall we?

While we may all be playing the same DVDs (known hereafter as The X-Files), we can have completely different reactions to the same episode. For example, I think "Paper Hearts" is one of the worst episodes of the series but a good friend believes it's the best, and we can both make convincing arguments for our respective positions. Fans can make completely opposite interpretations of what it meant when Mulder told Scully that he even made his parents call him "Mulder." What hooks us into the show (and then the fandom) isn't always the same thing either. For some fans, The X-Files is about Mulder and Scully, two heroic FBI agents who investigate the inexplicable and fight the forces of evil. For others, it's a show about Mulder and Scully, two gorgeous and sexy FBI agents who fall in love, and okay yeah, so they solve crimes sometimes, too. And for some fans of the series, the most important or at least the most fascinating thing about The X-Files is the character of Alex Krycek.

Someone posted to the Confessions from the Basement tumblr that they "wished this fandom wasn't so militantly anti-slash." I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not anti-slash. I read slash, although less in this fandom than most. Although you've probably already read it, here you go, anonymouse from tumblr, have some great Mulder/Krycek slash.

Read "Let's Play House."

Love it or hate it, please let us know what you think. And please, especially if you want to read more slash, leave us some suggestions in the nomination post for next time.

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-02 01:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
Wow, what an interesting conversation erupted while I was busy with my shopping kink! Wendy, I think you should allow OT comments; they all circle around to the same place and they allow a certain freedom of expression.

I'm a die-hard shipper--came for the weird, stayed for the sex--and I'm not a slasher. Het porn makes my motor run, but a m/m "smut biscuit" would not. I admit that I find the wide popularity of slash with female fans somewhat mysterious, though I don't object to it at all. I think the "militantly anti-slash" comment might be due to the fact that slash is proportionately less in X-File fic, and the reason probably is that Scully is such a strong presence on the screen and in Mulder's life. She can't be frivolously disregarded, and one reason I like this story is that she is not: she is treated with a respect that is actually poignant in nature. (Scully's bathroom is a safe place for Krycek, where is regresses to a childhood belief in possibilities long destroyed. Eating Scully's toast, he thinks of sainthood-- maybe earlier--and he thinks he might have been a writer. The heart is touched. Well, possibly not Wendelah's heart ;).)

I love the writing, I like the sense of metaphor experiment, but there's no doubt it's sloppy. Should have betaed, or at least carefully reread. See Hesychasm's listing of strained metaphors; I love it when other people do the work. But, like the show itself, we don't always feel words in the same way. I agree that the scuffed suede is ludicrous, but I kind of like the egg-shaped radiator drops. Go figure. One glitch I definitely noticed--when there's a lot of physicality you have to pay attention to who's where and who's doing what to whom--is when Mulder has Krycek shoved up against the wall so hard the screws in the picture frames are shaking. Yeah, a bit much, but intense. So they're back to front; Krycek can feel Mulder against his ass. Then, "All the color is sweated from his skin." Krycek can't see his own skin. He can't see Mulder's skin. Who is observing?

I'm a nit fiend. I would have edited the hell out of this.

But I liked it, truly. Of course the only possible relationship between Mulder and Krycek is sadomasochistic. I did think it was a bit overstated--or maybe I just don't like my Mulder being such a brute--but the sexualization of the violence rings absolutely true. And I do think that Krycek is in love with Mulder, the term "in love" being extremely elastic. He can't love a woman sexually; they're all on the pedestal. He is self-hating, so he takes pleasure in teasing the beatings and the arousal out of Mulder, which I'm sure arises from Mulder's self-hatred as well. (Is this getting me into trouble: linking S and M with self-hatred? Probably.) I think what convinces me of the "love" is that wonderful paragraph in which Krycek describes the sense of freedom and possibility in being with Mulder, the infinite, twisted weirdness that is in Mulder's brain. It's not a healthy love, it's very desperate and edgy, but that's the situation, guys. Desperation saturates this story, which is why the little bits of safety and serenity (at Scully's place) and the brief taste of happiness (after Krycek sleeps with Mulder) are so heartbreaking. Krycek could been friends with both his enemies, but he killed the father of one and the sister of the other. He is truly trapped in the circumstances of his life.

Mulder does come off as a bastard, though the show allows for this. I kept wanting him to cool it. Still, actual torture...is disturbing.

I can't wait for someone to argue with me so I can explain what I mean. Then I will actually figure out what I mean. The twisted weirdness in my brain.

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-02 06:39 pm (UTC)
ad00absurdum: (xf - 3 monkeys)
From: [personal profile] ad00absurdum
Of course the only possible relationship between Mulder and Krycek is sadomasochistic.

I disagree. A good writer can make anything work (though probably not m-preg *trolol*) and while there's a lot of canonical violence in the Mulder&Krycek relationship, there is also possiblity for something else.

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-02 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
Okay, great, thanks for disagreeing.

I guess the most *obvious* and canonically supported relationship between M/K would be sadomasochistic. True love does spring up in unlikely places. And this is one of the unlikeliest.

Though I might generally agree with "a good writer can make anything work," that would be in the context of original fiction by experts. There are excellent fanfic writers, and I can go with extreme departures from canon because I have an all-too-open mind, but there must be fanfiction limits. I mean, conventional romantic or quasi-marital scenarios between the two are frequently indulged in, but you must put canon firmly out of mind if that's your thing.

There's a lot of obvious hatred there, putting sex to one side. Denial of that would be a fictional miracle. But I admit I've read little slash, so I await correction.

Why am I thinking of "Shakespeare in Love" (one of my favs), in which Queen Elizabeth posits that a playwright cannot capture love on stage and Will manages it in "Romeo and Juliet."

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-04 10:33 pm (UTC)
ad00absurdum: (xf - 3 monkeys)
From: [personal profile] ad00absurdum
(Damn, since the comment I left yesterday is still marked as spam and probably invisible, let's try this again)

Okay, great, thanks for disagreeing.

You're very welcome. The pleasure is all mine, as they say.

I guess the most *obvious* and canonically supported relationship between M/K would be sadomasochistic.

See, to me it's not obvious at all because I don't see Krycek as being particualrly masochistic - no more than I see Mulder as a sadist. Unless you mean the other way round (though, frankly, I don't really see that either). Also, M&K friendship is canonically supported as well. They were partners and Mulder even warmed up to the extent of calling Krycek by his first name.
Saying the M/K realtionship that's canonically supported is a sadomasochistic one is like saying Mulder&Scully platonic friendship is canonically unsupported. And they were friends before the MSR was shoved down the audience's collective throat. It all depends - on the point in canon timeline, on the viewer's perception and interpretation. As it should be. It would be a peaceful less frustrating boring world if we all saw things the same way.

I mean, conventional romantic or quasi-marital scenarios between the two are frequently indulged in, but you must put canon firmly out of mind if that's your thing.

There is no need to go from one extreme to another. There really is something between hatred/sadomasochistic relationship and buying curtains together for Mulder and Krycek. Since you say you haven't read too much slash, I would suggest "How to Throw a Curve Ball" by Courtney Gray or "The Gift of an Enemy" by Sylvia. Neither story is about easy romance and neither is all about hatred. And both are quite plausible within TXF canon.

Oh, "Romeo and Juliet" is certainly one kind of love. The woe-is-me, angsty, rendering-garments kind. Perfect for the theatre. Well, no that's not fair, but I tend to be a bit cynical about those things :)

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-04 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
I why is it that we can't call that love?

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-04 10:37 pm (UTC)
ad00absurdum: (xf - 3 monkeys)
From: [personal profile] ad00absurdum
Because obsession is not love? I do like the phrase, though. Fits rather well. Better than "continuing infatuation" because I can't see the infatuation there to save my life.

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-05 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] estella-c.livejournal.com
Why is obsession not love? I don't want to come off here as, well, obsessive, but you don't favor gentle, marital love and you dismiss R&J innocent passion, and you don't like infatuation... Love is a word that famously eludes single definition. Still, it seems to me if one persists in deciding what isn't love, it might be good to come up with one.

Personally, I'm inclusionary. (Is that even a word?) There are thousand kinds of love. (I also feel that way about science fiction.)

(frozen)

Date: 2012-06-05 06:39 pm (UTC)
ad00absurdum: (xf - 3 monkeys)
From: [personal profile] ad00absurdum
Why is obsession not love?

To me obsession in the context of love implies the creepy aspect of stalking and/or rooting through the object-of-obsession's garbage. And ok, maybe that's love too, but it's certainly not a healthy love.

I never said I dismiss/don't like marital love or Romeo&Juliet kind of passion, even if the first tends to turn into staying together out of habit and convenience and the other seems a bit extreme - killing yourself because your lover dies.

Damn, sorry, I'm doing this again. Let me try one more time.

So, I've never said I dismiss or don't value those kinds of love; I'm actually quite fond of the concept of infatuation. I merely said that I don't see those kinds of love - or indeed, any kind of love - between Mulder and Krycek in this particular story. That's why I also said that obsession seems to fit the best in this case.

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