Story 7: "Tikkun Olam" by RivkaT and MustangSally

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Since we had a rather long interlude with no story at all (my fault!), wendelah1 and I have chosen a special bonus story. So here it is, "Tikkun Olam" by RivkaT and MustangSally, one of the controversial classics of the fandom. Hopefully it will provoke some discussion.

This story is rated NC-17 and is not for sensitive or impressionable souls. I'm not kidding. But it's really good.

"Deaths and disclosures, universal and particular, denouements both unexpected and inexorable, transvestite melodrama on all levels including the suggestive. We transport you into a world of intrigue and illusion ... clowns, if you like, murderers -- we can do you ghosts and battles, on the skirmish level, heroes, villains, tormented lovers -- set pieces in the poetic vein; we can do you rapiers or rape or both, by all means, faithless wives and ravished virgins -- flagrante delicto at a price, but that comes under realism for which there are special terms."

Interesting discussions:

Usenet thread on prologue

Spoilerific Usenet review thread

Comments

[frey-at-last.livejournal.com]

Maybe I shouldn't start off the discussion, because I only read the first 1/3 or 1/4 before I got tired. But I will!

I stopped because I guess I could just tell where it was going -- a dark trip to a world where none of the characters actually like each other and everything unravels in ugly and violent ways. "Interesting" and "a mindfuck," maybe, but at some point I can't recognize the characters as themselves, and I know things will just get worse and worse (so the tension of "will they fix this? CAN they fix this?" dissipates), and I might as well be reading something else... I realize that other people can be sustained in it, however, and maybe at one time I would've had the interest/patience. It's too bad, because these two authors can teeter on the line between "edgy" and "too much," and still produce very engaging stories, but I think they fell off on this one.

[bardsmaid.livejournal.com]

...at some point I can't recognize the characters as themselves...

This is always one of the tipping points for me, and unfortunately I'm picky enough that I hit this point much more quickly that most readers. When I read fic, it's because I want to peer more deeply into the characters I know so well, and care about. Once they morph into variations, I lose interest... which makes me pretty unfit for fic reading, for the most part, I guess. I'm not out to spoil anyone's party, btw; it's just how it hits me personally.

Even when I'm up for some XF theater-of-the-absurd, as I was the other night when I reread the Krycek humor classic My Little Demons (http://www.iyam-fic.com/ratales/mylittledemons.html) (wherein Krycek is visited by God, who insists that Krycek clean up his act and turn his life around), lack of clear canon characterization grates on me. If only Krycek sounded like, well, the real Krycek, I was thinking as I chuckled my way through the story, this would be perfect.

I'm hopeless, I know.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

I read fic for two reasons, I think. The first is exactly as you say, "to peer more deeply into the characters I know so well, and care about." The second is a little more complicated, and has to do with wanting to see the way other people see the show, with taking a basic source text and seeing it infused with a different authorial vision. If that vision is strong and consistent I am willing to forgive shifts in characterization that would be unforgivable in a weaker text. Think of the many ways that Arthurian legend has been told and retold over the years; think of the way that good cover versions of songs bring out qualities that you never would have noticed in the original. In my more grandiose moments I want to see fanfiction as the modern equivalent of myth; as Henry Jenkins once said, "fan fiction is a way of the culture repairing the damage done in a system where contemporary myths are owned by corporations indead of owned by the folk." So looking at the genre in that way, I expect writers to use the original text as a jumping-off point, as the departure rather than the destination.

There are many different ways of writing fanfic. I get the feeling that you and wendelah1 are far more interested in canon-compliance than I am. You both are concerned to write stories that can help to justify the twists and inconsistencies of the show, and tie it more closely in a consistent whole. I am more likely to just say, "oh, I never believed that episode anyway." So our philosophies are sort of different!

Hope I haven't gone on for too long; I didn't mean to lecture. I just wanted to explore how it was that I was willing to forgive stories like this, given that I view characterisation as being very important to me. The answer seems to be that I actively like alternate versions of an original text. I like those changes in mood and style that show a really strong author has got hold of the reins. I like thinking, "it could have been like this."

[wendelah1]

When I am writing, I am very concerned with trying to stay close to canon. Although I do have some ideas for AU, they are more plot-driven, than character-driven. I will read anything, though, as long as it is entertaining. This story was certainly that.

[bardsmaid.livejournal.com]

Hope I haven't gone on for too long; I didn't mean to lecture.

Oh, no. Quite to the contrary, it helps immensely to understand how other people approach fic, so thanks for taking the time to explain how you see this.

Personally, I'm not just interested in canon-compliance; it's an absolute pre-requisite for me. Which I guess explains my puzzlement when I first read fic and couldn't quite understand why people were enthusiastic about stories that I just couldn't get into because they presented the world of the XF (and more importantly, the characters) as, well, not the ones I'd been watching on-screen.

All of which explains a lot, I think, about why I rarely read fic. The vast majority of authors and readers are, I believe, like you--interested in alternate approaches to the subject matter.

All this doesn't mean, of course, that I don't have my own selectivity when it comes to canon. I have not just episodes, but entire seasons that I'd prefer not to believe, which is why my Sanctuary series begins in early Season 6 and veers off in its own direction. Likewise characters: to me, the Seasons 2-5 Krycek who intrigues me (by turns nervous, cocky, manipulative, terrified) is a very different animal than LateSeasonsKrycek, who is inscrutable, calm, always in control... and who holds no interest for me at all.

Anyway, thanks again for your explanation. All this just goes to show how very many approaches there are to fic, and how that translates into preferences and trends within the fandom.

[leucocrystal]

Very interesting stuff! I'm more in tune with bardsmaid though on this one; canon compliance is the sticking point for me. I suppose that's why so few of the fandom "classics" don't appeal to me at all (which would explain, as we've probably discussed before, why I can't drum up half the enthusiasm or interest it would take to ever finish, say, Iolokus).

I can admire those, I suppose, who try to veer from the norm and pave their own way, even if I don't have any interest in reading such things. I wish I could simply be entertained by this approach, as Wendy is, but there's always that niggling bother in the background that snags for me, every time.

[wendelah1]

I would rather have stories that were told well, than stories that complied with canon. I just want the writing to be great. I want to have my brain explode. My favorite writer on livejournal, who does not write in this fandom, by the way, is synecdochic. Her story for Stargate Atlantis, freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose is the best story I have ever read in any fandom. I don't even like the show, but I love this story. I certainly don't ship the pairing, and I don't care if it is canon compliant, because that is not what this writer is about. She is about the language and the story, and the characters she is creating, which are infinitely more interesting than what the show was doing, anyway. I guess I love good writing and good story-telling more than I love any television show, even The X-Files. I will read anything if the writing is terrific. I don't just mean fan fiction, either. I read widely in any case, it is my favorite hobby, my first love. I need books like some people need water.

[leucocrystal]

I think it's just due to a different approach to reading in general. If I don't have an interest in the characters, the quality of the writing itself can only do so much for me. The same applies to original fiction. I OD'd quite a bit on reading when I was younger (as you know, I started quite early), so now I'm much more particular about what I like. Probably not the best approach, but it works for me.

[wendelah1]

I am asking this just to clarify. Reading no longer gives you pleasure, in and of itself. Only a fairly narrow subset of reading material of any kind holds your interest. Does that sound correct?

[leucocrystal]

Oh, I probably should've been more clear the first time around. I do still love to read, I'm just pickier than I used to be. I used to read just for the sake of reading, but now I'm much more discriminatory. Frankly, my new job environment perpetuates this, which is fine for me. It's not just good characters; I need interesting plot, well-done prose, or that rare kind of writing that sort of... transports you. Sadly, there's just not that much of this out there, that I've come across anyway.

That said, being picky has its perks. I rarely spend time on books that I don't enjoy, so when I do finish something, it's a good experience. Also, I don't rush read as much as I used to, either. It's more leisurely now I guess, and I never read more than one book at once.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't rush read as much as I used to, either. It's more leisurely now I guess, and I never read more than one book at once.

I rarely read more than one book at a time, but I think that's only because I read so fast! Really I should try to train myself to slow down, but speed reading is so useful in my non-fictional life that it is hard to maintain two different speed settings.

[wendelah1]

I am always reading about twenty books at a time. I read very quickly, too, unless I am reading strictly for content. I read a little bit slower, then, I guess. I have a very good visual memory, or at least I used to.

If I didn't have anything else to read I would be reading the back of the cereal boxes. Fortunately, in my house that will never be a problem.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

It is definitely a dark journey and there is definitely a lot of unravelling along the way. I'll confess that I didn't read every scene with scrupulous attention and indeed there were some scenes where the scroll button never stopped moving. Having said that, I still thought it was a very fine story. RivkaT and Mustang Sally have always teetered on the brink of out-of-character, at least as I read the characters, but their writing is so interesting that I suppose I've been willing to grant them possession of their own X-Files subuniverse. They are out-of-character in a very consistent and pointed way, so that their alternate Mulder and Scully are (to me) worth approaching on their own terms. (By this I mean the basic Mulder and Scully in their works, not the AUs that appear.)

The plot of the story is actually surprisingly tight. Both the way it unravels and the way it is fixed end up being tied in very well, so when you get to the end you don't feel like you've been taken on that wild ride for nothing. That's my two cents anyway. Not that I'm trying to convince you to read the rest of it; just saying.

[wendelah1]

It is a dark story, but I think it was told very much on the surface of things. I never got very emotionally involved in the fates of any of the various universes, or in their versions of our characters. It felt very cold. It is a story that I can admire but not love, and not one that I can see rereading for pleasure. The closest novel that I can think of in tone might be "Lolita," which is techically brilliant, and very disturbing but which I also found to be quite cold. I thought that Jess M.'s "The Other Man" was a much darker story, and one that I felt very involved in and rather devastated by even the second time around.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

I never got very emotionally involved in the fates of any of the various universes, or in their versions of our characters. It felt very cold.

That is a good point. Now that I think about it, I didn't get that attached to the characters either, and that is especially interesting because in "Iolokus" I really was. Even, or arguably especially, the original characters in "Iolokus" were compelling creations. You did get attached to them.

My surmise is that the characters weren't really the point of this story. It was all about the moral shape of the world, and like the sex, the characters just acted as bellwethers to demonstrate exactly how bad it had gotten. The story draws heavily on "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead," and that play was not exactly about the characterization either.

I'm planning to write my own review of this story, by the way. Just that it's quicker to start by replying to other people.

To Repair and Transform the World

[wendelah1]

This was really good. It wasn't what I expected from the discussion thread. I expected something incoherent and disorganized. I certainly didn't have any trouble reading through it. I thought the plot seemed to weave itself pretty consistently in and around the sex scenes. I didn't think that the sex was the plot, exactly. The sex functioned as more of a marker or a sign post, for if things were going badly in the bedroom, one could be assured that things were really going to hell outside it.

The story starts with an unusually gruesome murder that unless I missed the solution remains unsolved by the end. In the course of the crime investigation, Mulder gets a chance to play God. He meets a sexy scientist who has discovered a way to go back in time, via the conscious retrieval of a memory.(I know, but just go with it) He decides to try to fix something that went wrong in his world. One would think he would go back to try to prevent Samantha from being taken. But no, instead Mulder decides to try to save Scully by alienating her back at the very beginning during their first case together.

Instead of saving Scully from her fate, he wakes up to a world in which she is dead, killed in her apartment at the hands of Tooms, because Mulder wasn't there to save her. Do you recognize that plot? Bingo! Yes, It's A Wonderful Life. So, he goes back in time again to try to repair the damage to their partnership, and this time he wakes up to a universe where Scully is fucking Krycek. And things only go downhill from there. Mulder goes on to betray Samantha to save the world or Scully at least two other times (how biblical!).

There are some terrific moments along the way:

She was a bruised peach with thick mascara and she was obviously still fucking Krycek. It made me wonder what I had done for this to happen. Hey, universes may pivot, it's always my fault; my guilt is an art form.

Then there is the universe where he is having threesomes with Scully and Krycek: "this must be the oral sex universe." And so on and so forth.

Now, this would all seem very improbable and OOC, but what universe does all of this happen in? Why ours, dear reader, the universe of fan fiction. There is no sexual permutation or perversion in this story that I have not previously read or at least read about in many other stories. In fact, compared to some fan fiction, this was fairly tame. At least all of the kinky sex in this was consensual and served a thematic purpose.

The story does come full circle, right back to the opening scene. The only thing that has changed is Mulder. Now, he knows the truth, that he sought in vain through so many universes and episodes and seasons.

You don't get to choose who you love. You only get to choose how.

And this time, you have the feeling he is going to do it right. Besides, as this story conclusively demonstrates, things could always be worse.

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[tree]

i'm really glad i read your comment before reading the story. now i know that i don't want to read it. *s*

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[wendelah1]

I didn't expect that you would. I have a high tolerance for the dark side. I have a naturally sunny disposition, and for the most part, I throw off the negative emotions from reading pretty easily. It is harder with visual stuff so I am pretty careful about what I watch on TV and in film. I suspected that emily_shore and I might be the only two people who would even read it all the way through. If anyone else does it's a bonus! We will read something more fun next week.

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[tree]

now i have this terrible feeling i've got a reputation for being some sort of delicate flower who must be protected from dark!fic. :) there are certain types of darkness that i like, but mostly i stay away from stories that aren't MSR because they just don't mesh with my view of the world, even an AU world. and from prior experience i know that MustangSally and RivkaT's view of the world is not my own.

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[wendelah1]

Oh, no. That wasn't it. I assumed you wouldn't read it for exactly the reason you stated, plus that you had seemed a little down. Who wants to read dark-fic then? Not me. I do have very wide-ranging taste in fic; I read gen and slash, too. I don't have to believe in a pairing to read it. If the writing is good enough, I can just go along for the ride. I loved "In A Dark Time" by A. Lee-Anne Childe and I don't see M/K as a viable pairing. I just was captivated by her portrayal of their very hot romance, set during "Sleepless."

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Oh, this *is* MSR, among other things to be true.

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

The story starts with an unusually gruesome murder that unless I missed the solution remains unsolved by the end.

I thought that the idea was that Robert Rothstein had done it, or had somehow been forced to do it by his implant? If you go back and read the prologue again, it certainly looks like it's him.

...a universe where Scully is fucking Krycek.

Which clearly can't be the right universe, isn't that so? The very nature and fabric of the universe leads us inexorably towards the Mulder/Scully OTP, and all else represents a deviation from the path of truth and righteousness. While I thought I was kidding when I typed that, on reflection I think that RivkaT and MustangSally--despite the unsentimental nature of their stories--do lead us to that conclusion in a way.

Why ours, dear reader, the universe of fan fiction.

What an interesting concept. Some people in the Usenet thread did see "Tikkun Olam" as a kind of satire, and I wonder if that isn't right. Mulder journeying through the many stories of his life and trying to choose the right one. The one with Scully and a picket fence and a house in the suburbs. The one that doesn't end with a brutal quadruple muder (quintuple if you count the cat, sextuple if you count the unborn baby).

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[wendelah1]

I assumed that the crime was committed by some version of Mulder in some universe. But the universes kept bleeding together, and Robert's memories were so distorted. Plus, he is such an unreliable narrator. I thought he was nuts, but incapable of that kind of violence. Why would his implant make him kill his family? What would be the point of that? Just another consortium experiment, like the one in "Blood?"

I think it has to be satire. It doesn't work for me nearly as well unless it is. But that is me. I really need to read that children's book. I wonder if it is still in print?

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Well, I could be wrong. There is no real justification offered for the murder. I don't know whether that's the whole point or whether the authors just couldn't be bothered to go back and tie up all the loose ends of their spectacularly shocking opener.

The novel I was talking about seems to be out of print, but available secondhand through Amazon. It has very good reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Futures-Tycho-William-Sleator/dp/0140345817

Re: To Repair and Transform the World

[wendelah1]

I will go order it now. It sounds wonderful and scary.

Maybe there isn't supposed to be any clarity about that murder? That doesn't make sense though. I will go back and look at all of the passages he is in. The problem is that the point of view whenever he is there is him, isn't it? And he's nuts.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Does "Tikkun Olam" or "Iolokus" represent the more grueling read? Arguable. "Iolokus" is longer, but "Tikkun Olam" has that very special going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket feeling to it. wendelah1 made the analogy to "It's a Wonderful Life." A good analogy and one which makes a lot of sense. The difference is that in "It's a Wonderful Life," George Bailey only makes one different choice and the rest of the movie follows from that. In "Tikkun Olam," Mulder keeps choosing, choosing, choosing... choosing better, choosing worse... and a great deal of the tension in the story comes from the uncontrollable shifting, the uncertainty of never knowing when something truly horrific is about to come into focus and the uncertainty about what the next bad choice will represent.

When I was little I read a children's sci fi novel called "The Green Futures of Tycho," which had a similar premise to this. Boy finds time travel gadget, boy uses time travel gadget, and finds subtle changes when he returns to his own time. Subtle changes that become more and more horrifying the more than he uses it. That novel stayed with me for a long time; when I was an adult I spotted the library copy being discarded for ten cents and picked it up to read once more. I expected that it would be less scary than it had been ten years ago, but no, it was still chilling. There is something really scary about having reality shift around you, and having it be your fault.

The worst present-realities in this story are shown only in short bursts, which somehow makes them all the more powerful.

The title of the story refers to the Jewish concept of "repairing the world." Yet interestingly, at the end of this story Mulder returns right back to where he started. Perhaps this is the best of all possible worlds after all? (See "Cunegund's Restoration" for a very different take on that idea.) It also parallels the moral of "Je Souhaite," where Mulder learns that reckless wishes are worse than no wishes at all, and that it is much better to sit back, eat popcorn, watch "Caddyshack," and be happy enough with your life as it is.

The opening of the story is riveting. It stayed with me and I found myself thinking about it on and off, even after I had forgotten which story it belonged to. Apparently when it was first posted, a lot of people wondered if it was an uber-dark sequel to "Iolokus." As it is, it does a much better job with the encountering-doubles concept than "Fight Club" could even have dreamed of. The authors manage a very good slow dawning, as they do with Mulder's slow realisation that things are changing around him. The unfolding at the beginning is very well handled.

My attention wandered slightly during the last third of the story, the part at the beach-house where they just seem to be waiting around and having sex while the world dies around them. Nothing wrong with that, at least in this dark, twisted universe, but I did wonder whether the realities of survival when civilisation is falling apart could have been brought to the fore a little bit more.

Hunter... well, I didn't like her, but then I didn't expect to like her. She is much less like Mulder than Robert Rothstein is, despite the fact that she grew up in Mulder's family of origin and Robert didn't. For one thing, she has very little of Mulder's vulnerability and I think that vulnerability is a big part of the reason why we tend to forgive him his craziness.

[Ending this post now so I don't go over the character-count limit...]

[wendelah1]

Yet interestingly, at the end of this story Mulder returns right back to where he started. Perhaps this is the best of all possible worlds after all?

But does he? Because he doesn't sound like the same man to me, at all. Look at how different his reaction is to his morning.

She was going to leave me for Heaven. And for some reason I couldn't bear to have that happen.

He doesn't even know why he feels this way.And then this:

Why didn't I tell her I loved her? Even when she was dying I couldn't choke it out. I could imagine a scenario in which it happened, and I suppose imagination was my enemy. When I said it in my fantasies, it always sounded like an accusation.

Wow. Fox Mulder, profiler extraordinaire, tries to understand his own life. And he doesn't run away. This time he stays. He tells her he will drive her to church. Now, I can tell you as a Believer who is married to a Non-Believer, when your skeptic partner tells you he will go with you, hang around on a Sunday waiting for the end of Mass, and then take you to lunch, afterwards, That is love. (Yes, my skeptic has, and it is.)

"Your choice." We were going to have to work on Scully's trust issues. If nothing else, it seemed that appeasing them would be expensive.

You mean there are ways of working on trust that don't involve handcuffs?

This is not the same universe, it is a better one. The only thing that has changed, so far, is Mulder. The rest will have to be imagined.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Well, there are two different issues here. My view of the situation is that Mulder left his own universe, went through all of those other rapidly-deteriorating universes, and then returned to his own to live that same morning again. He is different, he has new memories, but the history of the rest of the universe hasn't changed. He is different; it is the same.

Perhaps that is the message? That what matters is how we live and how we go forward with life?

[wendelah1]

I do think that is what the message is: how we live matters.How, not who we love matters. I do believe that one person can change the world, in tiny increments perhaps, but it is change. The universe of Fox Mulder and Dana Scully has already changed. Weren't all of these multiple universes created from a series of choices? Mulder is the center of this universe, it seems. (Someone, somewhere is now screaming, I knew it! See, it is a sexist source text! just kidding.)

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

It became a different universe when he made his first different choice. Before that it was just in potentia. But now I'm getting philosophical!

[wendelah1]

You are making me work. In potentia, everything is possible. Yes, I agree, as soon as he made his first choice. But he had to have changed to make that choice? Yes, this is getting too philosophical. I agree that it is his action of choosing that made the change. Then they are in a different universe, a better one, by the smallest of increments. Every little bit counts here. We are having a duel of icons. You choose one of cold but theoretically infinite beauty, I choose "From Outer Space!"

[dictatorcari]

leaving aside any issues of the plot making sense (i maintain that no story with time traveling or alternate universes--let alone both--ever makes sense), i'm still not sure how i feel about this one. i committed two full days to getting through it, and there just wasn't enough payoff at the end to make me feel like it was worth it. i may be biased (i'm a hopeless shipper), but after all that cruelty i wanted to see a little more warmth. the mulder and scully of the first and final scenes--theoretically, the "real" mulder and scully--were far too mean-spirited and self-centered to be the characters i know. it didn't seem grounded in truth, at least characterwise.

and one more thing: good lord, could there have been any more similes in that thing? it was driving me crazy.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

(i maintain that no story with time traveling or alternate universes--let alone both--ever makes sense)

Sounds like you're not instinctively a sci-fi fan!

i may be biased (i'm a hopeless shipper), but after all that cruelty i wanted to see a little more warmth. the mulder and scully of the first and final scenes--theoretically, the "real" mulder and scully--were far too mean-spirited and self-centered to be the characters i know.

I suppose it depends what sort of MSR you're looking for. I agree that it wasn't an all-out MSR love-fest, but I liked the subtlety of Mulder's change of heart in the final scene. RivkaT and MustangSally's view of the X-Files universe in general is always a dark one, and it doesn't necessarily ring true for everyone. But for me, that quiet shift in the final scene said more than a big, dramatic love scene would have. Mulder and Scully are never going to be perfect, but at least Mulder is trying. It's the trying that's interesting, at least to me.

[dictatorcari]

Sounds like you're not instinctively a sci-fi fan!

haha, that's the first time anyone's ever said that about me. it's not that i minded the alternate universes, it's just that there are paradoxes about them that really just can't be explained. so parts of this story just won't make sense no matter how you think about it.

I liked the subtlety of Mulder's change of heart in the final scene.

oh, me too. but after many hours of reading, a couple of subtle paragraphs weren't enough for me. besides that, scully was still mean. why were they that way in the first place? the canonical mulder and scully would never treat each other with such disdain for such an extended period of time, at least in my opinion.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

oh, me too. but after many hours of reading, a couple of subtle paragraphs weren't enough for me.

I suppose it depends where you're looking for the emotional payoff. I'm a shipper, but not a huge one, so for me the appeal of this story lay elsewhere than in the Mulder/Scully closeness. I suppose I can see how if that was mainly what you were reading for, you might be disappointed.

why were they that way in the first place? the canonical mulder and scully would never treat each other with such disdain for such an extended period of time, at least in my opinion.

Oh, I don't know, "Never Again"? They have their moments. I wouldn't describe it as disdain so much as a gulf of communication that they have a lot of trouble bridging.

[dictatorcari]

i see what you're saying about "never again," but i got the impression from this story that mulder and scully had always been this way towards each other. i don't know, it didn't feel truthful to me. and that's totally fine, but it's not what i like in a fic.

as for the payoff, it was partially that i wanted mulder and scully to profess their undying love for one another (when do i ever want anything else?), but mostly that after what felt like an oppressive few hours reading about all this torture and cruelty, i wanted to feel something a little fuzzier. i'm sure the intent was to leave the reader feeling unsettled, and i get the merit in that, but it doesn't mean i like how it feels.

still, i'm glad i read it. it was nothing if not interesting.

[wendelah1]

I think that anytime you mix time travel and/or alternate universes, you are in for a world of hurt trying to have it make sense. That being said, I thought the multiple universes were a structural as well as a thematic device that the authors used to create their story.

I am more of a noromo, so I am never bothered by the lack of MSR. I would rather have the story end in a way that was consistent with the tone of the rest of the story. I think the story came to a perfect end. It came full circle, right back to the beginning, and yet left this reader feeling hopeful about the MSR.

scully was still mean. why were they that way in the first place? the canonical mulder and scully would never treat each other with such disdain for such an extended period of time, at least in my opinion.

The canonical Mulder and Scully aren't ever shown on screen getting up together on Sunday morning. We don't really know what they are like together, do we?

They are both adults, with established lives and habits, and separate households, who have finally come together in a sexual relationship. I think that might be a hard adjustment for two people who have been together- yet not- for so long.

Mulder has often been openly disdainful of Scully's religious beliefs. That is canon. It is natural for her to feel a little defensive about heading to mass, hence the remarks that to you seem mean, just seem to me like she is being protective of herself. As Mulder said, they need to work on her trust issues. They aren't starting from scratch here and they both have brought a lot of baggage with them, both from their years together, and before.

I agree, this was not a happily ever after sort of story, but I found it a stimulating, entertaining read none the less. You may like our next story quite a bit more. I applaud you for sticking with us!

[dictatorcari]

definitely. the use of parallel universes was very good here, but it does leave the story vulnerable to a lot of illogical situations. and the story did come full circle, and in context it was a good ending, but i still feel that after all of the pain and sadness, that tiny glimmer of hope wasn't enough to make me feel better. basically, i'm saying that it was a good story but i didn't like it. does that make sense?

just to be clear, i never meant to insult anyone. it was a very good story, but it left me feeling a little unsatisfied. sorry if anyone took my criticisms personally. :)

and i'll absolutely stick with you! if everyone wrote exactly the same thing over and over, it would get boring. i like having new things to read.

[wendelah1]

I am never insulted by people disagreeing with me about fic. I meant that I am happy you read the story all the way through and then told us what you thought. Communicating via the internet is hard, sometimes, isn't it? I am fine. So, we're okay?

I like having new things to read, too. Here is a pretty shippy icon that a friend made me. Just for you!

[dictatorcari]

of course we're ok! i was never upset with anyone, just paranoid they might be upset with me. :)

thanks for the shippy icon. haha. i appreciate it.

[wendelah1]

You can take it if you like. I have about six more shippy ones I have never used. She made me 30 icons after my mother-in-law died to cheer me up. This is another one of them. I even got the artist's permission to use it. Just credit untasted. She has an amazing icon community lecollage, too. You might get a kick from checking that out. I saw that you did theater, are you still doing that?

[dictatorcari]

wow, thanks, i'll definitely go check that out.

i do, actually. i'm the communications director for a theater company called rogue artists ensemble, and i love it. are you in california? you should come check it out sometime.

[wendelah1]

I am in California. I live in Los Angeles, in the San Fernando Valley. Your company is based in Orange County. Not a short drive but hardly impossible. Do you all put on anything in the summer? My husband is a high school teacher, so summers are a better fit with his schedule.

[dictatorcari]

actually, we're based in los angeles...i just live in orange county. this summer, we're actually doing a remount of our last show, "mr. punch," which is based on the graphic novel by neil gaiman and dave mckean. it's pretty cool...i'll let you know when it gets closer. :)

[wendelah1]

That would be terrific, thanks.

[deathwatchlove.livejournal.com]

This comment is super-late to the discussion, but oh well. It took me a long time to get through this fic. For one thing, I didn't start actually reading it when it was posted; I skimmed the first few paragraphs and wasn't really sure I wanted to keep going. But then I went with it, and I'm very glad I did. I ended up skipping a lot of the sex (not because it offends me or anything, there just was so much of it, even if a lot of it was at least in some way plot-advancing). Related to that though, the build-up to the Hunter/Mulder/Scully section was amazingly well-written, I felt. Ideas of multiple universes, and of those universes bleeding over into each other is very intriguing to me, and I kind of enjoyed the fact that in places it was hard to follow who's point-of-view the story is being told from.

I'm pretty glad that I made myself read it over the course of several days, because I don't think I would have appreciated it as much if I'd tried to digest it in one sitting. Also, the fact that I drew out the reading process made my finishing coincide with a close friend of mine telling me that I reminded her so much of another friend of hers that she believed he and I were two separate parts of the same person.

[wendelah1]

Hey. Better late than never. And, welcome.

Also, the fact that I drew out the reading process made my finishing coincide with a close friend of mine telling me that I reminded her so much of another friend of hers that she believed he and I were two separate parts of the same person.

Spooky.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

Related to that though, the build-up to the Hunter/Mulder/Scully section was amazingly well-written, I felt. Ideas of multiple universes, and of those universes bleeding over into each other is very intriguing to me...

Yes, I'm with you here. And somehow the concept seems to fit very well into the X-Files universe. Maybe it's that whole post-modern concept of never being sure what really happened? It seems only a short jump into the other ways that things could have happened.

So so late

[bmerb.livejournal.com]

Years too late here, nearly a decade in fact but... And WOW this xf bookclub has been going on for nearly a decade. How awesome is that?!?! But I digress.

So Hunter and Fox. Or Hunter IS Fox. Clever use of names there. I think Wendy is right, this HAD to have been something of a crack at or parody of the overlapping and multiple worlds of xf fanfiction as well as a bizarre slipping of universes and times within plot.

I don't have much intelligent to add other than I really thoroughly enjoyed this one. Dark but well plotted, confusing, interesting, thought provoking, and oh-so-twisted. I love that there is an alternate universe Krychek who is nice and mostly normal and does dinner (and sex of course) with Scully. And the variations on Samantha. And Hunter, oh geez what a screwed up character, the epitome of what Mulder's could have become without any scruples. Her only love is self love, which is also love of Mulder who is herself. And my doesn't he learn a lot about himself through her, his deep base desire to be humiliated and shamed and redeemed all at once. So dark but somehow that aspect seems just only slightly off the edge of canon to me. I love that Mustang Sally and RivkaT write M and S as though they actually have to cope with all the traumas of their lives, WITHOUT the weekly reset button!