X-Files Book Club

I've read this before, and always liked it. Some aspects I like better than others. Since I derailed our last discussion, it behooves me to open this one.

The style of Weatherman is its major selling point. It has an eccentric, witty, poetical mode of Mulderexpression, and it is endearing and repays close attention. I also especially liked the backwards direction of the thoughts. It's so--time-travely.

The author does admit to a bit of Scully-dislike, and I'm afraid this comes through not in a harsh perception of Scully herself, heaven forbid, but in a very mother's-favorite take on Mulder. This is not a very long fic, but it long enough to make the Mulderangst cloying. Mulder is so much in love with his partner and so down on himself that the reader is almost brought to the point of wanting to warn Scully that she has an emotional dead weight on her hands. Which is unfortunate, because we all love Mulder and want him to be loved back by other than moony extratextual fans. The problem, I think, might have been solved if zauberer_sirin had elected to make Mulder fall in love a bit later than episode two or three. It would have been fun to see Mulder deny and tough out his attraction to his partner, and would have lent some suspense to the downcounted chapters. How often, really, do we need to hear about his unrequited, unspoken adoration. Better to hear about him fighting his lust as his respect for Scully disarms him. Really, the piece would lend itself to a simple rewrite. I'm not offering, for heaven's sake. And I almost never give even this much advice. Who do I think I am?

It's a good choice and I think lends itself to discussion. Even though it veers pretty close to Mulderemasculation.

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leucocrystal

I wish I were going to be around much at all this week, because I do love this fic, but at the same time recognize its flaws (which I think you pointed out here very well). I liked this fic well enough though to immediately recognize the title when I saw it pop up on my flist though, so it's really nice to see it rec'd here.

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wendelah1

I wish you were, too. I remember this was a favorite of yours from back in the day.

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The author does admit to a bit of Scully-dislike, and I'm afraid this comes through not in a harsh perception of Scully herself, heaven forbid, but in a very mother's-favorite take on Mulder.

Yeah, “Weatherman” coddles its Mulder characterization. The first time I read this fic I didn’t notice, but now I wonder how I could’ve missed it.

The problem, I think, might have been solved if zauberer_sirin had elected to make Mulder fall in love a bit later than episode two or three.

I can see what you’re saying and I do agree that the fic over-sells Mulder's FEELINGS a fair bit. But honestly, my favorite sections of this fic are all near the chronological beginning, and I just…don’t have the heart to mind a bit of over-emphasis of the MSR. Not when Mulder’s brain is being so endearing and poetic. I may not believe in love at first sight, but I sure am a sucker for a little bit of rapid-onset obsession (between fictional characters, anyway).

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wendelah1

But honestly, my favorite sections of this fic are all near the chronological beginning, and I just…don’t have the heart to mind a bit of over-emphasis of the MSR. Not when Mulder’s brain is being so endearing and poetic. I may not believe in love at first sight, but I sure am a sucker for a little bit of rapid-onset obsession (between fictional characters, anyway).

Ha ha! My favorite sections are from the beginning as well. I figure I succumbed to the rapid-onset Scully obsession because of my own.

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wendelah1

We also have 300+ watchers and an unknown number of lurkers.

I like that we're mixing it up a bit and reading more contemporary fic, too.

Here's to many more days and nights of reading and discussing X-Files fanfiction. Now I'll promise to read the story and try not to post too many irrelevant off-topic comments.

Edited to make the picture smaller.

Edited Date: 2012-03-13 02:14 am (UTC)

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But I like irrelevant, off-topic comments....

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Me too.

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Has anyone noticed the sly reference to James Joyce in 'chapter' 11, where Mulder mentions attending a Joyce seminar while at Oxford? I had a 'Eureka!" moment at that point and wondered whether the author was subtly sign-posting her inspiration for the Mulder "stream-of-consciousness" narrative (less obvious in the early parts, but more noticeable later on in the story). If that was a hint of what she was attempting to emulate I thought she did partially succeed with her noticeable lack of punctuation in places, and long, rambling, slightly disjointed sentences. I thought this was quite effective.
On the subject of this fic focusing heavily on Mulder's thoughts/state of mind, I'd like start by positioning myself firmly on the Mulder side of the fence here. I do love Mulder-centric stuff because as I've said before, I am a Mulderist, but also a shipper (sorry Wendy) so a huge part of me really enjoyed reading him as a love-struck, 'pile of mush' ; I suppose that secretly I hope deep down that maybe, just maybe, this might be an accurate insight into Mulder's actual thoughts at each stage of his relationship with Scully. It made me want to go and have a mini-rewatch of some of these scenes all over again in the light of this interpretation. However, that said, I did shudder a little at the rather too familiar, over-used fanfic trope of Angst!Mulder and his over-active guilt complex. I just can't quite see where fanfic writers got this idea from but it pops up everywhere in fanfic, almost as if it is based on actual canon (fanon more like!). I've watched the whole 9 Seasons over several times and I just don't see this guilt-tripping, "I'm such a bad person" Mulder to any great significance in the show itself, so I wonder where this trope originates from, and - oh dear, now it's here too, in this otherwise excellent story. However, despite the criticism, I did still greatly enjoy reading this and re-reading it a second time was a pleasure. Great choice.

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Well, as for the guilt trope, I suppose writers are reacting to Mulder's obsession with the loss of his sister, the rejection by his parents, the havoc the search and associated adventures have on Scully's personal life, etc. There are plenty of reasons for a guilt complex (think of his hallway behavior when Bill Scully calls him a "sorry son of a bitch"), but I would say he handles himself well despite all that. He is energetic, determined, focused, and pretty funny at times.

I've heard English fans criticize the notion of Mulder taking lit classes at Oxford if he was into law enforcement. It does seem like a kidnap from DD's own past. But it never bothered me a bit.

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I agree that there are good plot indicators as to why Mulder should have feelings of guilt, but if he is experiencing them to the extent often described in fanfic, then I find it hard to believe that this wouldn’t manifest itself more in his outward behaviour. In canon, as you have stated yourself, he seems a little too confident, if not arrogant, to be as cowed/insecure inside as he is so often depicted in fanon.
Re the James Joyce literature seminar I referred to, of course I wouldn’t dream of trying to comment on whether Mulder could have attended literature classes at Oxford while doing a psychology degree. Despite being English, I’ve never been to Oxford as a student, and feel hopelessly unqualified to pass judgement on that subject. My intention was to draw attention more to James Joyce himself and his style of writing (i.e as seen in ‘Ulysses’) & possible connections to the writing techniques employed in this story. Happy to be shot down over that if everyone thinks I’m barking up the wrong tree!

Edited Date: 2012-03-14 05:50 pm (UTC)

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I think Mulder very clearly has a guilt-complex toward Scully, and I think it does manifest itself quite a bit in his outward behaviour. One thing I can think of is the way in which the people behind the conspiracy tried to convince Mulder that Scully had been given cancer to "make him believe." That, to me, shows that they understood Mulder's mental process, that he does in fact have guilt over the fact that Scully's work on the X-Files has often led to negative consequences in her life.

And yes, Mulder does seem confident and arrogant on the outside, but some of that, I think, is an act. You can see indications that Mulder doesn't really like himself that much, or realize that how much he means to others -- specifically, to Scully. In "End Game," he travels to the arctic to find the alien ship and leaves this note to Scully: Scully, when you get this message, I will be too far away for you to stop me, but where I'm going I cannot allow you to follow. I won't let you jeopardize your life and your career for reasons purely personal to me. You were right, Scully... you said a line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm drawing it for you here. I'll contact you when I can. Mulder doesn't seem to be taking into account that Scully would miss him if he were lost, he wants to protect her from danger herself, but he doesn't seem to realize that she would be hurt if he were the one in danger.And then there's the hallway scene in FTF, where he tells Scully that he owes her everything and that she owes him nothing. I don't think he's just saying those things to manipulate her, I think really doesn't understand how much she values him. There is a clear sincerity to that scene. (I'm not saying that he *always* and *only* believes she doesn't value him much -- I think a lot of the time, he does realize that she does, it's just when he's dealing with difficult emotions, he can sometimes go into that dark place where he's more insecure).

A person can seem confident on the outside, but that doesn't mean they're free from insecurities. Mulder's a man, and even though he's not the kind of guy who's overly concerned with seeming "macho," he at least realizes that showing vulnerability is considered a bad thing for someone of his gender, and I think that he does a good job of hiding his insecurities behind stoicism and overconfidence, but I think they're still there, and they can be seen. I think that Mulder being both confident and insecure makes him a more complex and interesting character. I don't think it's a case of "is Mulder confident, or is he insecure?" I think it's both. Sometimes he's so sure of himself he does stupid things, but at other moments you can see some insecurity. I don't think it's all just fanon.

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Good analysis. As for hiding his insecurities, that's probably part of the FBI agent skill set. Who wants a fibbie who admits he's worried about how to handle a gun.

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I take your views completely on board and you have in fact mentioned a couple of examples of where I had noticed that Mulder does show some signs of insecurity, so I do concede that point, along with the one you make about how a person can seem outwardly confident while being pretty insecure underneath. I don't know what else to say here except that I still feel it's been rather overdone in this story, to the point of emasculation (as an earlier commenter described it), and to the point where I start feeling almost embarrassed for him. I really adore the character of Mulder, and this take on him is kind of sweetly endearing, but I still don't accept that this portrayal is completly true to the canon character (but we all see & interpret the characters in differing ways, so it's no surprise that we don't completly agree!)

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I would say he handles himself well despite all that. He is energetic, determined, focused, and pretty funny at times.

He does handle himself well, but that doesn't mean he's completely emotionally healthy on the inside. A lot of people can seem outwardly fine, but not be so in their own minds. I think it's a misconception that, because someone seems confident, or because they joke around, then they couldn't possibly be depressed or insecure, or whatever.

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Well sure. I imagine one of the great draws of writing fanfic is inventing inner lives for the characters, since in real life we have to guess. Frankly, I'm still guessing (occasionally) about David Duchovny's inner life.

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wondered whether the author was subtly sign-posting her inspiration for the Mulder "stream-of-consciousness" narrative

This is an interesting idea, but I’m going to be the wet blanket and say I doubt it. From what I’ve read of Joyce (Ulysses and Dubliners) the slightly unstructured narrative of “Weatherman” doesn’t even come close to his often nearly indecipherable stream of consciousness style. Not to mention that everything I remember of Joyce’s writing was frenetic and grim and utterly lacking in romance (everything Joyce writes feels soiled to me), while this fic is merely the reflections of an off-kilter psyche, deeply rooted in intimate adoration, and exceedingly romantic.

I suppose that secretly I hope deep down that maybe, just maybe, this might be an accurate insight into Mulder's actual thoughts at each stage of his relationship with Scully.

Me too, nailseabelle, me too. And I’m not even a Mulderist!

I just don't see this guilt-tripping, "I'm such a bad person" Mulder to any great significance in the show itself, so I wonder where this trope originates from

Putting aside the issue of whether it is or isn’t grounded in canon for a moment, I think one of the reasons guilt-stricken, self-devaluing Mulder is so popular is because some fans like to see that kind of vulnerability and sensitivity in him. Personally, I find it helps me connect to the character. Inner torment means, among other things, a rather complex and active inner life, albeit a painful one. But healthy is boring, I say. *g* Ultimately I’m inclined to trust a character who is plagued by self-doubts more easily than a character who isn’t, because it suggests they are considerate. They are acutely aware of their own fallibility, and the consequences of screwing up, and they are also likely to dearly value those who stand by them. I also like to root for the underdog in most situations. This is my opinion, and it’s really only the short answer, but I’ll quit now, before I try to further dissect this issue without getting any sleep.

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Glad you thought the Joyce idea worth airing and I do take your point, I was just throwing it in to stimulate some kind of discussion of technique - so thanks for your interesting opinion on the matter. I did rather think I was stretching the point a little too far, but what the hell!

Edited Date: 2012-03-16 06:23 pm (UTC)

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I think one of the reasons guilt-stricken, self-devaluing Mulder is so popular is because some fans like to see that kind of vulnerability and sensitivity in him. Personally, I find it helps me connect to the character.

Ah ha ha, I feel like I could have written this. I just find vulnerable, sensitive Mulder immensely attractive. Sometimes fic portrayals of him go ridiculously overboard (and I have to be honest here and say that, although I nominated this fic, I haven't reread it yet so I don't remember if this fic does that, or not), but I think he does, at least, have some level of insecure vulnerability to him. I mean, everyone does, to some extent.

Inner torment means, among other things, a rather complex and active inner life, albeit a painful one. But healthy is boring, I say. *g* Ultimately I’m inclined to trust a character who is plagued by self-doubts more easily than a character who isn’t, because it suggests they are considerate. They are acutely aware of their own fallibility, and the consequences of screwing up, and they are also likely to dearly value those who stand by them. I also like to root for the underdog in most situations.

If Mulder didn't have that vulnerable, insecure side to him, I think I'd find him insufferable. His arrogance is only easy to take if you believe that at least part of it is an act. I think I wouldn't like him if he really was as overconfident as he sometimes appears to be.

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1/3? - aka - How the heck did my comment get this long? God.

When I first read this fic, years ago, I distinctly remember thinking how amazingly well it had captured Mulder’s character. That was back when I was far more of a bothist than I seem to be now.Now I read this fic and I love it because it’s a Mulder characterization that I love to bits. It’s how I wish he was. (Well, it’s one of the ways I wish he was, though there are quite a few more, admittedly, and he’s not always this much of a woobie.) At this point in time, what I think “Weatherman” does catch remarkably well is Mulder’s impulsive, idiosyncratic, left-brained-ness. So basically to me this fic reads like it’s done an absolutely gorgeous job of capturing half of his character, and has kindly swept the part where he’s a bit of a bossy, selfish jerk a lot of the time under the rug, replacing it with heaps of private insecurities and Scullylove (two things I happen to adore in a Mulder characterization).

My biggest criticism of “Weatherman” is that Scully comes across as a bit of a shrew. Part of it is that Mulder is just so sweet and insecure and head-over-heels in love with her that she can’t help but look insensitive by comparison. But part of it is that she’s simply been written kinda insensitive. Admittedly Scully is often quite resistant and reserved and yes, sometimes a bit of a wet blanket. But she’s very rarely insensitive, so it stands out in “Weatherman” when she is.

The dialogue of “Weatherman”…is interesting. It’s in a style which is more stuttery and babbly and real-world-conversation-ish than canon XF dialogue, which was always quite direct and formulated. I like it, for the most part (ignoring the fact that Scully’s dialogue often seems OOC). It’s pleasantly informal, things falling out of their mouths in a bit of a jumble, and fitting right in with the sweetly jumbled narrative.Which leads me to what I love about “Weatherman”: (besides adorable Mulder)

The idiosyncratic poetry of the writing. I’m sure there will be people who find it bothersome, but I find it delightful. The style of it really pulls me into this Mulder’s head and makes me believe in him and connect with him (and want to wrap him in a blanket like the woobie he is, yes, that too). It makes the fic an experience.

Edited Date: 2012-03-16 10:09 am (UTC)

From:

wendelah1

At this point in time, what I think “Weatherman” does catch remarkably well is Mulder’s impulsive, idiosyncratic, left-brained-ness.

Yes.

So basically to me this fic reads like it’s done an absolutely gorgeous job of capturing half of his character, and has kindly swept the part where he’s a bit of a bossy, selfish jerk a lot of the time under the rug, replacing it with heaps of private insecurities and Scullylove (two things I happen to adore in a Mulder characterization).

Yeah, well. It feels a little lop-sided is what I hear you saying. I think it would have been a stronger story if it had been better balanced.

But part of it is that she’s simply been written kinda insensitive.

Yes. The author's negative feelings toward Scully end up bleeding through despite her best efforts.

The idiosyncratic poetry of the writing.

Overall, I like her style but sometimes I'm not sure if it's intentionally idiosyncratic or if she's just, you know, wrong. It can be distracting. It's not a story that holds up well to close scrutiny for me, I guess is what I'm saying, unlike JET's writing or Penumbra's. This story was written on the fly, wasn't closely edited (if it was edited at all), and for me, it's better read quickly, too, otherwise I get bogged down in the details.

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2/3 - moar

And it appears that this is the sort of fic I just need to comment on excessively, without rhyme or reason, so:

it has always been this way with him, it has always been Scully first, and then the rest.

I admit I…I badly want this to be true. I always have. Which I guess is basically a sentiment you could apply to this whole fic: Mulder, y u no behave like soulmate? Not that I want him to focus on Scully at the expense of the work, but it would be nice to think that she held this-- exalted position in his mind. Sadly, I just don’t think CC and Co. were nearly that romantically minded. (just don’t tell my headcanon that)

That wasn’t a date, Mulder.

It was a date. We just didn’t know it at the time.

Aww. I can see even regular canon Mulder saying this.

but sometimes he feels tempted to ask, sometimes he wonders who knew first, although he feels like he knew from the start, which can’t be quite right

Love this. Also, it feels kind of meta to me. I’ve spent way too long thinking this stuff about them, wondering when they knew they loved each other and telling myself, “You don’t believe in love at first sight, so just stop this nonsense at once.” *g*

He feels ordinary, everyday words can never ever apply to them because this is Scully, he had meant to invent a whole new language for her.

A great example of prose oddity. By all rights this ought to be two sentences, or at least there should be a semicolon, yet it would have been a bit cliché if it were properly punctuated. It’s not as though this sentiment has never been expressed in a fic before. It’s the way the last bit runs right on to the end of the chapter that makes it feel like a quick, honest truth.

When the thought strikes him Mulder catches himself thinking about Bob Dylan singing “get born”, catches himself thinking Scully like it’s the first or the last time and he just gets it.

Does this section (16) mean Mulder has realized Scully is pregnant? Or that he thinks their story has ultimately been about Scully? Or just that it’s about Scully for him? Confusing. I do really like this line, though.

Well? She arches an eyebrow.

He just shrugs, Maybe they are really, really persistent.

This is another exchange I can vividly picture them having (though I can’t really picture them holding hands, even if it is S7). Also, is this supposed to be a metaphor for their relationship? That’s what I take it as. Well, that and just them being cute whilst contemplating zombies.

So his dreams are a bit like The Last Temptation of Christ.

Never mind, because his waking up is a fairytale moment when he opens his eyes and Scully is there -of course- and crying and saving him and he is horribly convinced that he is alive just because she called him back to her side.

Nice meta/non-meta commentary there. I mean in the sense that it takes what I think most viewers already think/feel about that scene (and are probably meant to think and feel) and acknowledges it by having Mulder think/feel the same thing. Except it’s not really meta at all, because it’s perfectly reasonable that Mulder would be thinking exactly that.

Actually, he is prone to recurring epiphanies and no, he doesn’t think that’s a contradiction of terms at all. He just gets caught up in his own insights, even if it’s not the first time he has them.

Yes, this sounds like Mulder, and is actually quite a lovely insight. It can be endearing about him at times, and immature at others. But in this fic it’s definitely the former.

From:

wendelah1

"it has always been this way with him, it has always been Scully first, and then the rest."

I admit I…I badly want this to be true. I always have.

Yeah, that's my biggest problem with this story. Always Scully first and then the rest? That's not who Mulder is at all. And really, what would the series have been like if he had been that guy? I think for most of the series, it's Mulder's search for the truth, beginning with what happened to his sister that defined his life, not his relationship with Scully.

"That wasn’t a date, Mulder."

"It was a date. We just didn’t know it at the time."

Aww. I can see even regular canon Mulder saying this.

It was an adorable line.

This is another exchange I can vividly picture them having (though I can’t really picture them holding hands, even if it is S7). Also, is this supposed to be a metaphor for their relationship? That’s what I take it as. Well, that and just them being cute whilst contemplating zombies.

It's a cute scene, and a good continuation of the episode.

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